Thanks for the opportunity and congrats on a great year across the residential and commercial segment. First question is on the launches. So, INR 17,000-odd crores of launches planned for next year. Obviously, a few of them we know, which is Privana, third phase, Mumbai and Goa. If you can share, apart from these three, what are the other launches, which are planned, specifically interested to know whether do we have launches planned for DLF City or IREO Land towards the later part of the year?
So, right now we have got these 3 big launches in the pipeline. Then we have got the Dahlias also as you know, we will come back some time in Q3 andso, that is going to keep us busy. With regard to the other two launches at this point in time, we are still in various stages of development and discussions. So, there will be something, say, in Q4, but at this point of time, we won't be able to speculate on that or to confirm. But there are two-three things that are being discussed. So, this year, we have got our hands full already and lots happening actually.
First of all, I just wanted to congratulate for a phenomenal result. And then I have literally one question, which is if you can guide us about your operating cash flow outlook for FY '26 FY'27 as well as CAPEX, including construction that will be helpful for us to think about for the next couple of years.
Okay. So, Praveen, thank you. As you know, we typically do not guide in a very specific manner on the forward-looking detailed financial data. But if you have seen now for the Fiscal'25, I think our total free cash flow was INR 6,200-odd crores. And now it's running at a rate of maybe this quarter was a slight hike because of One Midtown completion. But it's clearly running at INR 1,500 crores per quarter sort of a run rate, if you will, which should only keep on growing over time. So, you could make your own assumption basis that.
Okay. So that's very clear. And as you have mentioned, you're definitely spitting a lot of cash, based on this free cash flow that you just explained, and we are seeing growth. And you also grew dividend this year. Can you just rehash one more time going forward, how should we think about the dividend outlook, please?
So look, again, I would not want to make a speculative go-forward statement, Praveen. But if you look at the last 4 years, our dividend has been growing from INR 2, INR 3, INR 4, INR 5 and INR 6. And in all fairness, the dividend inflow from Cyber City has also been growing year-on-year. So , both our outflow and inflow from Cyber City have both been growing. I can't comment on exactly what number it will be for the following fiscal, but we do hope that we can sustain some form of a growth strategy that we have had on dividend.
Okay. I think it was answered in a bit in the previous question, just on Privana again, previous 2 phases has been sellout with the kind of expectations that's already built in since we are closer to launch. If not during launch, but if there is a demand, would we still look to sell it out by this year? What's your base expectation for Privana North for this year? And similar question for Mumbai as well. We have been hearing about a lot of demand coming from NCR and especially from Gurgaon as well for Mumbai project, but just your initial thoughts on the kind of interest that we have got for Mumbai as well.
Yes. So you're right, Pritesh, so a DLF product today is agnostic to geography in terms of investors. So today, you are looking at various sets of people who are wanting to pick up a DLF home. And as I said previously also why they're looking at , because these are not dead assets. Not only do they make money in capital appreciation, but they also, you know, once you lease them out, you have recurring income also. So it's like good for both investors, to people who want to live in them. So today, right now, as I see it, there is a sizable demand. I can't go beyond that today to explain to you, because you understand why, but there is a sizable demand for both the products, both here in Privana and Mumbai, both from the micro geographies, rest of the country as well as the NRIs. So, we will cross the bridge when we come to it, just give us a little more time. I think we will have more answers for you, and you'll hopefully hear about it. But I'd just like to leave it here right now that based on how we want to do it. But yes, as you know, we don't discount our products. We don't do that. So, I think at this point in time, we have planned a structured launch to do some towers now and some in the following quarters.
Understood, sir. And secondly, so on the ROE target, we have reached 10% plus, so that's a great thing. But on a sustainable basis over the next say, 2 to 3 years, where do we aspire to be?
Kunal, about 4 years back, we were told that ideally we should at least target at a double-digit first. Having done that, now obviously, after double-digit, early -teens and mid-teens come, but let's see how the process runs.
Thanks for the follow up. First question on Dahlias. What are the price points we are at right now? And what could be that jump when we relaunch in 3Q?
So, Abhinav, right now, we are at almost about lakh plus on carpet. So right now, that's where we are. And just to tell you what Camellias is about now 2 lakhs on carpet. So, you do the math now, because we are almost sold out. As you know, we are sold out in Camellias. We have got nothing. So tomorrow, when people want to get into the DLF Golf Links, the price points, I think, will continue to go up. I don't want to right now speculate on what we are going to be. But if you see the gap between what Dahlias is today and what the present prices of Camellias are, I think that's what the catch-up will be. And it's going to be faster because of what Camellias has already delivered, done. People have seen the product, used it, using it. Therefore, there is obviously a great legacy.
And second, on the commercial side. So, I suppose, 4.6 million square feet of office space between DLF and DCCDL, plus 1.4 million square feet of malls would be delivered in FY '26 itself. So, exit rentals by FY '26 would be INR 7,000-odd crores, if I am not wrong, sir? And nothing getting delivered in FY '27, right, incrementally?
Exit rentals by FY '26 should be about INR 6,700 crores. But that's because these assets which are getting completed this year, we will not have the advantage of rentals for the full 12-month period. Then FY '27, we will see a further jump in the rentals because we would have had the advantage of these for the full year. Yes. So next year, the only delivery will probably be the D ata Center 3 in Noida. And the year after that, again, we will see a spurt of completions.
It was mostly about construction expenses and CAPEX.
Yes. So, the CAPEX spends in RentCo, which again, if I may say, the combination of DCCDL, DLF and Atrium Place, in FY '26 and in FY '27 will be in the ballpark of INR 5,000 crores. And this is a big jump of what we used to see earlier, because the pace of execution of the downtowns and the completion of Atrium Place etc. and the certain approval fees that has to be paid for incremental FAR will take it to about INR 5,000 crore number this year and also next year.
Hi. Good afternoon. Congratulations for great set of numbers. So, my question is on the housing demand in Gurgaon. If we, let's say, want to meet our whatever we have done in FY '25 numbers, we would need a significant absorption in the new launches, etc., that we plan to do in FY '26. So just wanted to get your thoughts on how do we see, one, launches and housing demand? And second, your outlook on the pricing front?
So housing demand for good houses and DLF has got its own diaspora. So, housing demand for quality products is continuously there. And also what is happening in Gurgaon today has become a very solid investment option too. A nd why I am not just saying building investment options , but people are monetizing it through rentals and all that because of the large Cyber City that exists with the major workforce that exists in Gurgaon and so many other things that the city today is and the employment matrix is almost No. 1 in the top 3 in the country. So, there is housing demand for sale as well as rentals. And therefore, a lot of people are investing in the DLF real estate as an asset class, which they prefer because of the certain quality deliveries and on time, and the escalations that they get. And therefore, it becomes a very good opportunity to invest also, should they not take it for their own. So, our attempt has always been that we go for people, who are buying these for themselves. So that is one. And second, people who are also NRIs or the rest of India has started to invest in Gurgaon in a reasonably big way. Those people are doing this as an investment, and they get great rentals.
Hi. Congrats on a strong quarter. Tyagi sir, any guidance for presales that you would like to give for next year?
Okay. So, if you could recall, Abhinav, when you were here in March, and we had that big Analyst Day, we had said that we would continue to be broadly at this level, what we have achieved last year. So, I still say that we should be in the 20,000 to 22,000 range for next year. But again, as Aakash has consistently outperformed in the last 3 years, I don't see why he can't again. But right now, our guidance will be 20,000 to 22,000.
Sir, also on cash collections, we have had a very strong year. And do you think that we will sortof have a 30 billion quarters now or even higher? And on the construction cost for the DLF part?
So I think Abhinav, our trajectory should not be any different from what possibility we have achieved in the last couple of quarters in terms of gross collection. It should follow the same trend level in the coming year. So, construction cost, if you see the cash flow, we spent around close to INR 724 crores in the last quarter. And I think this number should become the baseline for next year with all the projects coming through. So, I would say INR 800 crores a quarter inching up slightly over the next 3, 4 quarters should be a safe assumption to take.
My next question is for Mr. Ohri. Sir, on the Privana side, how are we looking at the next Phase-currently? And what the product and the size looks like? And what's the timing here?
Okay. So the Privana North is a far more evolved product. It is quite a nice product, allow us a little more time to come to the market to come and talk about it for compliance reasons. But like anything else, it is the natural progression. The area has been prett y well received and established. It abuts a great green lung. It's got great infrastructure where 5 minutes, you are in various parts of well -connected expressways. The 2 products themselves , the 2 launches have been so well received. Also to let you know that presently, the 2 Privanas that were sold last year are trading at a premium of INR 2,500 to INR 4,000 a square foot at present, as I speak to you, which is also very heartening and good to know. And that's the kind of demand that the present set of Privanas have. And therefore, now the next phase. I think as soon as we have our paperwork in terms of RERA and all done, we will be in the market very soon. You should hear about it soon.
Congratulations on a great set of numbers. Sir, my first question is on the timing of the launches for Privana and the Bombay project and the next Phase-of Dahlias. So how are we looking at these timing of launches?
The timing of launches are now in Q1 and for the first two, Privana and Bombay we are working towards the Q1 story. And Dahlias, obviously, as I mentioned to you, once the experience center is ready, which should be some time in November -December, we will then do the show and tell and bring it . In fact, this particular thing, the main launch is slated for the Dahlias. But for the Privana and Bombay, it's now Q1.
Okay. Sir, so like are we sure that we will get RERA approval for the Bombay project in the first quarter?
So I think we will. But frankly, the reason for the delay of a few weeks on the Bombay project has actually had nothing to do with RERA. It's that because it's a slum rehab society with multiple societies whose approval and all of those things have to be taken. It's just the multiplicity of the small approval, which has led to a delay. But I think we are now looking good, as Akash said, for hopefully RERA in June for sure.
Got it, sir. And my, sir, the second question is about the Privana North product. So sir, your previous Privanas have been sold out, so with like awesome demand. So I wanted to understand like what interest is this product generating?
So as I was saying just about in the previous question, Privana has got an established ecosystem today. There is a very good demand for the Privana. And the present Privanas are being traded at a premium of INR 2,500 to INR 4,000 a square foot. And therefore, there is a reasonable demand for the new offering now and people are waiting for it. So, as far as we are concerned, we will get into the market post-RERA and then get down to doing what it is. But right now, overall, because I am not in the market, so I can't give you an exact statement here. But what I hear is that there is a reasonable amount of demand, and people are looking forward to the launch.
Thank you very much for this opportunity. Great numbers, great performance. And year -on-year, as the MD mentioned that it's been an incremental improvement year-on-year. So all that's like very good news. See, the thing is that my question was a little long-term-ish in nature. And I wanted to understand how is the management attempting to build DLF into a structural business, not a hardcore cyclical business that a typical real estate development business is.
Yes. So Manish, a very interesting question, frankly. Clearly, we have 2 parts of the business, the development and the rental business. And in some sense, the rental business provides stability and gradual increase, while the development business basically is the one where you take risk, hopefully grow a lot and then unfortunately, also encounter a few cycles when it happens. So, A) the combination of these 2 provides natural institutional hedge against a completely all or nothing story, which may impact developers who are only in one side of the business. That is clearly one. B) from an institutional and from a management standpoint, we have clearly been strengthening all streams of our management over the last few years now in that sense. And I think we feel that now we have the where with all, if something like a COVID happens in a big way, nothing for 6 months, you may have to ride it through. But for most normal business cycles, I think we are now reasonably well covered. Yes, the residential business will, at some stage, have cyclicity to it but when will it come honestly, I don't think anybody has a crystal ball on that. But I think we are reasonably well captured. Also, structurally, we are now a zero-leverage company on the development business.
So, just want to take this forward, and thank you so much for this answer. See now I think we reached a situation where about INR 15,000 crores to INR 20,000 crores of development sales can happen like the market is taking it, right? Now one way to derisk that is to have a multi -locational play. So you tried Goa, Mumbai in a very small way. So, I basically want to understand that can the company or maybe are your long-term plans, do they talk of INR 15,000 crores to INR 20,000 crores sales on a year-on-year basis?
Thank you. So Manish, first of all, obviously, while our sales are running at this INR 20,000 crores approximately levels, I think we internally chase 2 metrics, which is, A ) the free cash flow that we are generating ; and B) the embedded margins that we are generating. You could have developers who are doing INR 35,000 crores of sales and generating embedded margins of maybe INR 7,000 crores, while there are developers who are INR 20,000 crores, can generate embedded margins of INR 12,000 crores. We would like to be in the latter category. So, we clearly want to be in a situation where our embedded margins on an annual basis continue to be in the 5-figure range , and the sales that supports it. While Mumbai is a geography which interests us, because it is the largest real estate play in the country for sure. But having said that, I don't think that we have any doubts in our mind that our center of gravity will overwhelmingly remain NCR.
Yes. Sir, I just wanted the time line for launches of Goa, IREO and also the Delhi subsequent phase?
So IREO, I think we should be in a position, hopefully, with all the approvals. IREO was, as you know, it's 8.5-acre parcel, but it is 2 distinct parcels. So, I think we should hopefully have all our approvals done sometime this year. And if all goes well, IREO pieces should be launched next fiscal. Mumbai, we have completed OneMidtown apart of some residual sales that remain. So , I think Mumbai will get back to the planning stage, it's not Mumbai, Delhi . So , Delhi, we will get back to the next year to the planning stage. But the Delhi launch of the next phase-may not happen next year. It may not happen in FY '27. It may take longer than that. Goa should happen sometime this year, I presume, yes.
Understood. Thanks. My second question was to Khattar Ji. Sir, if you look at the Cyber City portfolio, right, which is I wouldn't say mature yet, because when I look at the rentals, let's say, about INR 110, INR 115 bucks. And when I look at the rentals in our newer blocks that we are leasing, like INR 145, INR 175. What's the rerating potential there in terms of rent over the next few years?
So, let me take Cyber City, which is really a legacy asset. We have the current rental for the minimum space that is vacant and for the term expiries is in the ballpark of about INR 125 to INR 135. And that if you say, compare with Downtown 4, which is the la st building or to say, Atrium Place, which we have just leased, which is in the ballpark of INR 160 to INR 170. I think maybe a little higher than 10% compared to the weighted average rate that is already there in the portfolio.
Okay. Thankyou. And my last question is to Badal. Badal, this year, we had a fair bit of deferred taxes or tax reversals. How should we look at tax rate going ahead over the next 2 to 3 years, maybe?
The tax rate should be normal to my mind. The deferred tax was a very- very minor component in the current P&L from a P&L perspective, Kunal. So , the tax rate from a P&L forecasting perspective should be business as usual. No significant deferred tax asset gain to be considered in the coming years.
Great. Sir, one clarification. I think, Tyagi sir, if you can provide on the land bank, Slide # 17. So, we have this 12 million square feet of pipeline in DLF City and 9 in New Gurgaon. So, what does this refer to specifically among the projects? Okay. And metros will be Mumbai then?
So, the DLF City refers to primarily the IREO timeline at Sector 61, and it refers to some pockets that we have for group housing in DLF City in the erstwhile DLF Phase-1 to 4. And Privana is affected in New Gurgaon. Metros are Mumbai, Delhi and Goa.