Highest ever annual addition 9618 MW, group crossed 90 GW.
- Additional capacity beyond pipeline — answer hedged.
- Upside nuclear capex — answer hedged.
- Renewable ppa mou progress — answer hedged.
How much do you think NTPC can add or should add more, apart from the already announced pipeline? My second question is, many of the states are putting up capacities under the DBFO model? Do you think there is a case for us to participate in a state-based bid to add more capacity to pipeline?
So, I did mention to you that we will be having 26 to 27 gigawatt addition to around 62 gigawatt, whatever it is commissioned. So, it should be around 88 to 89 as of today. We have the appetite to add another double-digit number in our existing plants. So, we have sufficient headway. Now coming back to the second part of the question, every company has its own strategy. In the past you have seen whose strategy has been right or not right. Can I leave it here or do you want me to explain? We have decided we are going ahead with the existing Brownfield projects mainly for the pit head and that will be cost -plus as of today. So tomorrow we can change our strategy, that is a separate issue. But in the today's situation where the equipment is a constraint, where the transmission network is taking a little longer. So , all the right of way, whether it's a transmission line, whether it's a water line, whether it's anything else, it's taking a little longer time. Brownfield expansion , in my opinion , makes far better sense than starting the new greenfield. That does not mean that one should not start. I'm not saying that. But if you are already having the kind of your appetite or the capacity available, in the form of the land and the other infrastructure, why not utilize that?
So is there any upside because you've spoken about bigger number in nuclear in the past.
Yes. But that is something only up to the time. See, the nuclear takes a little longer period. I think that's what.
So, on the renewable side, in the overall 60 gigawatt plan that we have, what is the progress in terms of signing up of new PPAs or MOUs, if you can give us a split of that?
Yes. I just did mention that we have brought the CEO of the renewable with us so he can share. But what we are doing, this REIA or the PPAs, This is going to be a mix of the two in the sense that there will be PPAs, there will be some flexible utilization, there will be some merchant. But we are on track to achieve that 60 gigawatt by 2030.
So, like you are looking at co -locating batteries with a thermal plant, is there any thought of co-locating batteries with existing plain vanilla solar plants.
You have really asked a very pertinent question. Going forward, most of the bids may be with some storage. This discussion is going on. And there is a time we are also discussing with some of the states that whatever plant we have put up and that power, whatever is available during the day, we can provide the same power at an incremental cost and incremental rate, whatever it is, in the evening peak hour s. So those things are bound to come. But we are also not that aggressive at this point of time, realizing that there is a lot of correction which is happening in the storage, both technological side as well as the cost side.
My first question is on green hydrogen, you know, in terms of your plans at Pudimadaka and over the next 4-5 years, where do you see NTPC's investment scale for green hydrogen production and what kind of commitment is NTPC making for the next 5-6 years on green hydrogen?
Frankly, let me share with you that it is going to be sizeable, but at the same time there was some kind of wait and watch for the hydrogen related. And you know very well what has happened, after January this year, some declarations on this kind of net zero, etc., this climate and other things obviously. But if you speak to all the Europeans or the other part of the world, this remains intact. So, as I said, there was some time lag. So, let us not get into the numbers there, but the Pudimadaka itself is going to be around INR 85,000 crore total investment. Whether we are going to do from total on the balance sheet of NGEL, or whether we can also try to start having the model of facilitating others and try to charge. This can be a kind of SEZ model where you can enable people to come, and you can charge on that. But there will be a siz eable investment from our side. Because at the end, this is the coastal location, and this is the best part is that this will be proving to be a good export-oriented place. And if, let's say there is an off taker, he wants to join hands with us, or he wants to invest in that, we should be flexible on that. So put together, it will be around INR 80 to 85,000 crore of the total investment in that.
Intuitively, just INR 6 to INR 8 appears way higher.
See, the INR 6 to INR 8 looks to be higher, but with passage of time it will stabilize. I don't know whether we should discuss this point, but take it granted that there will be some cost to the environment.
There was a slide in which there was a possibility of selling directly to Commercial and Industrial Consumers. So how does that work? Do you have your own transmission line? And what is a power purchase agreement? Is it regulated, unregulated? Question number two, currently you have about 15% of your capacity in renewable. By FY32, it will be about 40% renewable. So, the question is, the problem India faces today, we have a surplus capacity. But the peak load can't be serviced. So, when there is a peak load requirement at that time, because lack of battery storage and other things which are developing, there is a power outage. And that may also be primarily due to poor quality of DISCOMs networks. So, these two areas, if you can just highlight, why not invest more in thermal to keep that peak demand requirement to be satisfied?
We discussed that we are investing in thermal also. No, 27. No, that is okay. Percentage-wise you are talking about. So, with that, there is going to be some kind of price coming down in case of energy storage also. I did mention that. And we will have to find a balance that how much we should do. Let's not try to put these new coal -based plants to run only during non -solar hours. That is something which should be clarity then, at least for the power professionals. Directly. C&I is through the power purchase agreement and the open access system. So, this is a bilateral contract. You can see the type of bilateral contracts between the seller and the buyer through the open access.
And rate of return is not regulated? So, is there any target by FY32 on this front?
Rate of return is not regulated. But there can be an arrangement where we can have a cost-plus arrangement also on a negotiated basis. Though it is not regulated. No. we are not chasing in a compulsive way. I mean, we continue talking and we are finding, this is a way of ensuring some off -take guarantees besides participating, because this will lead to better returns. So, it is a kind of sweetening of our portfolio.
We have our nine coal mines and we have mined 45 million metric ton against a peak capacity of 91.6 million metric ton. Two thoughts on that. When we are mining our own coal from our mines, is the cost of coal cheaper to us than we get the coal from Coal India Limited?
See, the primary idea of NTPC getting into its own captive mines is , the more preponderant thing is fuel security. Isn't it? Evidently, Coal India is sitting over a lot of legacy mines which was opened. Probably they were very good in the merit order with good stripping ratios. Increasingly the latest mines are going to be those which may have a larger stripping ratio. So, they have been auctioned. So, comparing an average of the coal prices, which may be 30 years old, 25 years old, with the latest one, with the latest capital cost, it won't be comparable. Isn't it? Definitely, if you take on a mine-to-mine basis, it is going to be different. But what we should ideally do is we should compare our latest mine with their latest mine. Isn't it? I think those are comparable.
Just color on the INR 7 lakh crore breakup as to how much of nuclear is included there and PSP?
I think Nuclear is only around 2 gigawatt in that.
Sure. And how much is PSP of that in 7 lakh crore number?
The hydro total is around 70,000. So, in that itself the PSP is taken care.
Sir, 7.2 gigawatt is what you expect to order on Thermal this financial year? Or will it be combination spillover in next year as well? And we should expect about INR 11 crore to INR 12 crore per megawatt?
Yes. No. This financial year we said. You will be lucky enough if you can get in that. And that too also with the brownfield , by the way. Yes, please correct me if there is anything there. Please feel free to just intervene or correct me if there is anything.
Follow-up on PPA breakdown across years for renewable plan.
Out of this, the initial phase 30 gigawatt if you talk about that, over the next 3 years, current year plus next two years would be roughly around 20 gigawatt and the balance would be in the next 2 years. As far as the current year's 4465 megawatt is concerned, 100% land connectivity is there, PPA is 87% tied up. Next year 8196 megawatt is there, close to 80% PPA is tied up and 100% again land and 82% connectivity is available. And for the year next, 8 gigawatt, more than 93% of land is tied up, 76% connectivity is there and close to 60% of the PPA is in place.
Sir, you gave an interesting update on battery at Barauni, right? So, would you like to throw some more light on that, the rationale of co -locating it at a coal power plant and the opportunity with other states as well?
Yes, it is going to be with almost every state, you can assume. At least all the forward-looking states will be definitely jumping on this side, we believe. The idea is that during the daytime, the power should be made available from those states, so that instead of bringing down to 55%, we can stick t o, let us say, go to 70% or so and we can store that energy during the daytime. And incidentally, this is a technical part, but it is a very interesting commercial sense that during the evening time when the ambient temperature is lower side, the line capacity increases. Otherwise, also there is a scope for around 10% in those lines, but during the evening hours when the ambient temperature is relatively lower, you can feed in more power. And this power belongs to them. So, this is a win-win situation for both of us, and they are the bigger beneficiary than what we are, because we will be at the end, we will be taking only return on equity and the O&M cost. But at the same time, this power, which is available to them, this is available at INR 10. Almost, that is the peak time that they are able to trade or whether they have to buy it at that point of time, without creating any extra infrastructure other than the BESS. And let me again reiterate here, and you can ask Mr. Shaswattam in detail who are interested, that our CO2 battery, which is 160 megawatt hour, which is going on in Kudgi at present, so we will invite you to visit that place. We plan to commission that by July next. If that is going to be as per our kind of assumption, because this is only second in the world. So, there is one which is in Italy and this is the next one which is getting commissioned. If this is getting commissioned, we are becoming free from the critical minerals. So , there is no critical mineral requirement like BESS. So , we are quite upbeat on that. And in that case, there is no restriction that this has to be that small or that big. And another point is, it can store for a longer duration. And another one is that you can modulate that.
Sir, as you are progressing more and more deeper into transition, we are seeing a lot of sort of complementary technologies, be it batteries, green chemicals, all of these emerging. So how do we assess which part of business will be located in which company? So, for example, will green chemicals be a part of NTPC or NTPC Green?
You have already said, the green chemicals will be part of the NTPC Green. And I did mention, and you can get further detail from Mr. Panda, that we have already won one, and there is another bidding going on at present. I can see the face of Mr. Panda that what is going on, he is keeping a close watch on that. But this is all going to be like, all of you would have seen that news that Honorable Prime Minister laid the foundation stone of our green hydrogen hub at Pudimadaka. So, with the land we had procured way back, around 12 years back, for the imported coal-based plant for 2000 megawatt, okay? And that time we were very close to award it. So, we annulled that. And just coming back to Mohit's question, the first question he has asked, we did take a considered decision and till now it has proved to be right. If you would have gone with the 4000 megawatt, imported coal-based plant, we would have been some serious concerns on that.
Sir, on FGD Installations , we have already gone ahead and done the investment and State GENCOs and private GENCOs are not investing. So, it puts us at a disadvantage. Are they compensating for us?
No. Yes, answer is unequivocally yes. So, we are governed by the environment norms. We are governed by the rules and regulations at that point of time. And we are operating in the cost-plus regime. So, Both Director (Finance) and Director (Projects), can reflect more on that. But you can take it clearly that whatever investment we are doing, that's not going to put us at a disadvantageous position. So, what I said is that we are in a regulated regime. That too also cost plus. And we have done this investment only after clearance from there. Having said that, if you are putting the FGD, you are taking care of the environment far better than if not put ting the FGD. Just to inform you people here that we have taken a pause at that, once this notification was issued. Already CEA and the ministry is working on that, that what should be the criteria for the new projects and which one we should really take up.
Follow-up on FGD for old vs new projects.
For the old projects, already the cost is taken care. It is cost plus only. For the new projects, following the guideline, we have kept the FGD on hold. In the meantime, CEA has formed a committee to decide upon the financial and all. Of course, we will be in advantage because we have done the FGD. We will be compensated. If tomorrow the law of the land changes, it will be advantageous for us only.
Sir, all the pumped storage power plants will come in the NTPC, right? Not in the NGEL, right?
I was mentioning in my presentation that some of them will come in the THDC and NEEPCO also. NGEL, we don't contemplate any PSPs, at this stage.
Sir, I want to again ask you on nuclear. With the capital cost that is involved, let us say by FY32, the first unit gets commissioned. What kind of tariffs are you looking at for that kind of capital cost, managing the risks around fuel and everything else? And what does it mean on a cost -plus-ROE model? And how does nuclear power basically fit into the merit order?
I know, See, the last question first. On the merit order, it is also must -run. It's a non -fossil; it's also taking care. So, that's it. But the cost part is dependent on the total cost of the project, completed cost of the project. And it's a long construction period in comparison to the others. So, this IDC and IEDC is a major component on that. The whole exercise which is going on is that how to reduce the time of execution and how to make it completely indigenous so that the cost will remain under control. So, there are some estimates as of now that it will be somewhere between INR 15 crore to INR 20 crore per megawatt. If that is going to be the cost, tariff will be in the range of anywhere between INR 6 to INR 8.
The other thing which you referred in your highlights in the initial opening remarks is that with very, very benign inflation of 1.6%, it is imperative that RBI goes further in repo rate reduction or interest rate reduction. May happen in September. And with that, there was a signal and an indication that with that, you will be enabled to lower the cost per unit of power which you are supplying and it is highly imperative that the per unit cost of power which we are supplying, if we reduce it, it will do a lot of good, not only for retail, for commercial, but even for industry. I would like your thoughts on that.
No. You tell me that it is in everyone's interest to reduce inflation. It is also in everyone's interest to reduce interest rate. But what will happen and what will not happen is not in our control. Nor can we guess anything for that. But one thing which you have raised is very important. It is that suppose someone had bid out and he had bid out at a time when the interest rate was very high. Is he going to reduce it? Prices? No. In our regulated returns, will the cost of power be reduced? Answer is ye s. So, to this cost plus, we can go on saying something, but it was structured as it is taking care of both sides.