In the analyst meet, we were shown that extremely interesting product, UnoFin. I understand it will take time for traction given it's a very different product. So if you could talk about the initial journey? What are the learnings? What is the progress? And on Haisha Paints, anything you want to share, given paint industry, there is a gradual revival?
So as far as we are concerned, Abneesh, we are focused in the 5 states. We are very focused on rurban, which is rural and small town, that is where we are focused. So rural and small town India, basically in these states. It is very similar to the commentary I gave last time, but there is progress, so I will repeat it. The good news from our end is that we are growing quarter-on-quarter, month-on-month, every month. So, I think that's very good news. We are growing in all our pilot states. We are indeed growing. So we are looking at all these comparisons and more like-for-like because we are focused on those 5 states. We are also looking at dealer like-for-like. So the good news is that we are continuing to grow there. I think what we are still not satisfied is the absolute numbers which we are getting or the milestone we had set for ourselves. So what we are saying is that we will continue to fine-tune our offerings as we go forward, but more importantly, fine-tune our go-to-market, our work with applicators, build those business modules, get that moat which Pidilite has and get that advantage from there as well. And basically, as far as we are concerned, our number of dealers are growing, our number of dealers with tinting machines is growing. And as I was telling you, our like-to-like sales at those dealer places is growing. So we are making steady progress. More work needs to be done before we extend. I think that's the headline.
Given the recent policy push to revive demand, especially at the urban side, are you seeing any early signs of improvement there? Because you called out that rural still continues to do well for you. So just wanted to know your read on the ground?
No, I think my view is very early to call anything. But having said that, we remain quite optimistic on the liquidity, which has been infused both through the budget in the hand of the consumers and also the last MPC announcements of the Reserve Bank of India Governor. So I think overall liquidity should be good for us. I think that, that should play out. I also feel that some of the advantages or the cash in the hand of consumers will be more discretionary. So therefore, that should play out on to segments and sectors, which are a little bit more discretionary, and we tend to be in that area, particularly home improvement and sometimes new construction. So the benefit should flow through. Are we seeing any specific sign in the first 3 months post this? I think the answer would be it's too early. I do not think we have picked up any specific sign at this moment, but we remain quite bullish and confident on this space.
On the consumer business side, we have seen acceleration both at volume and at the value growth level, while B2B business, if I look at, there is a bit deceleration on the growth side, especially on the volume side. Given the base for B2B is also high, do you think that this 1Q kind of a growth should be the kind of a growth run rate for the coming FY '26?
I cannot comment on a specific number, but what I will tell you is, see, the good news is that this is the eighth straight quarter of double-digit underlying volume growth for B2B. And you are right in your observation that the percentage growth, which you are seeing, 12.6%, seems to have moderated a little bit than what you were seeing in the immediate previous quarters, so that's absolutely correct. I think what is happening there is in terms of our impact, if at all, which I was saying in response to the earlier question, the response of all the macro geopolitical issues, and specifically tariff uncertainties tends to be more on our B2B business, a part of our B2B business. So a small part of it has a direct exposure, our pigments business, and some of the others have a, what is called a cascading exposure. So therefore, it is our industrial business, B2B business that supplies into industries or categories that have a large export intensity out of India. So therefore, to that extent, is there a little bit of headwind on these categories as for the short term? The answer is yes. But I must also quickly hasten to add that we are very confident of the growth because our projects business, which is also part of our B2B business continues to do very well. There, we are seeing very robust growth and therefore, all the things we were talking about in some earlier questions. So I think that is very strong. We see that growth to continue. We are continuing to see that momentum. Some of the growth in what we call our segment of offsite, which is joinery, again, has seen good growth. So therefore, are you going to continue to see double-digit? Yes. What percentages we will come at? I am saying we see quarter-to-quarter, so I do not want to comment on that, but we should deliver double-digit robust underlying volume growth in B2B as well.
In the analyst meet, you had mentioned that at any period of time, there are 10 to 15 pilots, which are being run, as you mentioned, UnoFin at that period of time. Can you give us some brief or insight that what other categories or pilots, which we can expect going ahead? Or you have found some early success into those categories?
Yes. So Rahul, a good question, and thank you and God is kind and the team is very good. And fortunately, as I keep saying, our business model and our portfolio gives us an advantage. And we are very satisfied with the strong results that we delivered. I think coming to your point on pilots, see, there are some pilots which are bit more visible. So the visible ones, we talked about UnoFin, we talked about Haisha, we are doing some work in B2B in newer spaces, in newer categories. Those are one set of pilots. There is a second set of pilots we have in the company are around newer subcategories or product category, a premiumization of certain products, certain new product groups. These happen even more localized into one geography, one state, and we do not talk about them publicly. And as you would expect, it's not fair for us to talk about it as well. Because in a way, we are piloting and testing some of our product portfolio as we are developing. So that we do not want, I think, while it may be at that space available to someone if you see it, but so therefore, it's a mix of these set of pilots. The more visible ones are the ones we have talked about quite a lot. So there is nothing new at this moment, which I would like to share on the more visible pilots or the more category refining or more new areas kind of stuff.
Apart from the paints which you mentioned in your earlier remarks, any category or product which is not as per your expectation or there is very steep competition into that, and you have to do lot of pricing actions so as to maintain the growth or market share?
No. Let me be honest with you, Rahul, and we are very candid and we share it as it is with all of you because we feel Pidilite is a family and you guys are part of the extended family. I think our models are that we keep perfecting everything. So even on paints when I tell you, I am saying for any other company, they would have been very happy because we are delivering growth here, but are we delivering it to the required standard is that issue? And to answer your question at this moment, if you have us to look at some of my new sub-products, new variants, will there be a few which are doing well? Will there be a few where we need to iterate? The answer is yes. So we continuously keep doing this. And I think this is part of the model. So we say, okay, we go on to the market, this is working well, this is not working well. We work a lot with the users and applicators almost day in and day out, almost on a universal basis. So, we pick up a lot of that feedback. And I think that is what makes us unique. And we continue to iterate. And because it was a slightly bigger initiative, you are hearing about it, but this is our model, we keep iterating. But in more cases than not, we get it right. And we are very persistent as well as a company. So we are pioneering and persistent.
The last question is on M&A front. Now Pidilite has had a track record of successful acquisitions. The last relevant large one was 5 years ago, almost 5 years ago. So how do you think about M&A opportunities and in the immediate future?
Jay, that is a great question. I will also ask Sandeep to add if there is any. See, we don't talk about M&As and no company should in my opinion in advance. But suffice to say, we basically keep looking at opportunities from time to time. When we explore opportunities, we tend to look at 3 dimensions. Are there some things which we bring from a customer point of view? Is there something which we bring from a channel point of view? And is there something which we bring from a chemistry point of view? So I think are there any those kind of ancillary categories and in some of those, we keep evaluating, wherever we want to come in, we want to come in with more premium and specialized products, possibly at the premium end of the market, not necessarily at the mass end of the market because I think our right to win there and ability to differentiate is lower. As I speak to you, we are evaluating, we keep evaluating opportunities. We will keep looking at opportunities for what are the ancillary areas, what are more specialized areas, everything in the area of home improvement, a little bit more specialized, a little bit more differentiated in terms of product offerings is something which we will keep looking at. Sandeep Batra: I think the only thing, Jay, to add was that in addition to this classic M&A, which would mean a full buyout, we have also done very successfully many joint ventures, right, where you get a foreign partner to India, where you contribute your knowledge of the Indian market, your distribution and the partner brings in maybe technology. So that is another one that we have kind of expanded what you may call our TAM. So the Tenax, Litokol, Grupo Puma, they are all examples in that. And these are things that you cannot certainly time; you can work towards it, but you can't time it, right?
Two quarters back, you had highlighted two states where there was some level of slowdown, I think Gujarat and Andhra Pradesh (AP), and then in Q4, you said it is easing out. If you could update us now, are these two states now almost normal versus the pan-India growth? And any other states where you would want to highlight, which are the outperformers, and which are the laggards?
So Abneesh, first of all, very good to hear from you. And thank you. I think indeed, these are strong set of numbers under the current context. Abneesh, as you rightly pointed out, from period to period, as we do analysis of different states and look at numbers and performances in every state, it keeps changing. But the good news is, like we were telling you last time as well, anywhere where we see a weakness, we do a very detailed analysis in the company, and we get into the root cause of why that has happened and put actions in place. So as you would rightly expect, and as you said yourself, I think some of the issues which were faced then, particularly in AP and in Gujarat, have eased out. Competitive intensity in some parts of these states does remain. So for instance, Hyderabad has very high competitive intensity for one of our businesses, tile adhesive, as you would know. Gujarat has some level of competitive intensity on some of our other businesses. But overall performance of the states is improving quarter-on-quarter. I think if you were to ask me, are there any states which are a bit of an outlier as we go forward, there are always some but I could say at the moment, Kerala is one state. When we look at Kerala, across our businesses, there is some challenges, but we will evaluate that also as we go forward, find solutions and be able to address it.
Tile adhesive cost is around 2x of cement. And almost many of the paint legacy players have now entered tile adhesive. So, if you could tell us in terms of pricing of the paint players versus your extremely strong brand, Roff, are you able to charge a premium still? And on the Hyderabad-specific example which you gave in terms of more competition, why cannot that competition go to more markets?
No, no. So this is not a new competition. As a matter of fact, we are getting more competitive. If you were to ask the other side, they will say perhaps that Hyderabad now Roff is doing a lot. So, as you know here, our key competitor had done a lot of work in projects well before us. And now we are inching towards leadership overall in the country. We are already leaders in tile adhesive when it comes to retail business. Hyderabad tends to be the bastion or the “gadh” of our competitor who started the business there. That's why the shares are slightly disproportionate. So, will it travel elsewhere? I think if it had to travel, there were 20 years available for it to travel. So will it travel now? And then can it travel now? The answer is in my judgment, not very obvious. So it is not a new phenomena. It will not travel. Now you are absolutely right. The cost of this is higher than cement, but tiles are getting more sophisticated. Tiles are getting thinner, vitreous, also on vertical surfaces, sometimes even outside exterior surfaces. So, you need more sophisticated solutions. So, our entire endeavour is actually to keep on premiumizing and building offers all through the pyramid. With the progress of Roff, we are particularly satisfied and very happy, both on Roff retail and Roff projects, our growths are really, really good.
To understand this fully, your presence in tile adhesive is far more comprehensive, far more SKUs and offerings versus the paint players which have a few offerings. Will that be correct?
Yes. So different players will have different offerings and all that, but ours is a very comprehensive offering. So I am saying if you understand like other categories, and particularly some of the other FMCG companies will tell you, India has a pyramid structure for developing a full portfolio. You have to have big products; you have to have slightly more superior, mass premium products; you have to have premium products; you have to have specialty products. So, when it comes to Roff, we have everything, Abneesh.
And on UnoFin?
Sudhanshu Vats: UnoFin I think it is early days. But what we have done is and I will ask Kavinder also to pitch in here, but the headline is that we are sort of continuously understanding how it should go out and revalidating our process. We are also shifting a little bit UnoFin to larger projects. I think in the initial, we had started a little bit more retail with more let's say, more bungalows and so on so forth. We are now saying that we will look at it more like a project with larger projects, with those buildings. We are beginning to do that work. Kavinder Singh: Thanks, Sudhanshu. Abneesh, the UnoFin question needs to be answered in two parts. One, what is exactly our strategy in this category. And we believe that this is a bit of a game changer today, if you look at exteriors, a typical painting process has 4 layers - putty and primer, and then you have once again the coat, first coat and second coat. So we are trying to create a category where the exteriors can be done with either 1 or 2 coats maximum, depending on the finish that you want. And this is sprayable, so it is a very unique advantage in terms of the construction labour, which is the #1 problem today, the construction industry faces. And more importantly, it has about 20 to 25 years of life and is also water resistant. So the benefits are well known to people who understand this. Now where the second piece of strategy is falling in place is, we are trying to now pitch it to masonry contractors because those are the ones who needs to be converted. And this will also go in places where the asset is owned by the owner. So just to give you a sense, one of the big projects that we have recently done is the Jewar Airport in the Greater Noida area, where the base coat was applied of UnoFin. So there, we have got some success. So like that, we are now moving into larger and larger jobs.
If you could comment on your confidence in sustaining or improving this 10% volume growth, which is fairly healthy? And also, if you could talk about some flavor on the sub segments in the B2C business on adhesives, Araldite, waterproofing? And also, what kind of pricing growth you would anticipate playing out for the rest of the year?
So thanks, Latika, and good to hear from you. In terms of our growth and Sandeep talked to you about that, our 9.9% UVG growth, which is this time, 9.3% Consumer and Bazaar and 12.6% B2B. So, this time around, this growth is very uniformly spread if I can use the word, across the 2 segments where you have the numbers, but I can also assure you and share with you that we are seeing consistent growth across regions, across categories, even across product groups. Very specifically, if I was to talk about a few product groups or categories, as you spoke about, we have seen very robust growth on Roff, which we spoke about. We have seen further increased growth on our Dr. Fixit portfolio. So Dr. Fixit overall is delivering very well on its promise. So that has done very well in this quarter. Fevicol has done well. Araldite has done well. And we have got growth basically on the core part of the portfolio, but also we are beginning to see some of our innovations in these areas which are beginning to do well, Latika. So for instance, if you were to look at Fevicol, if I was to give you one example. And if I was to pick up two of the newer areas, we have got into, one is to tackle multi-substrate where we launched a product called Nail-free Ultra. That product, I can tell you, is doing very well, very well. We are very happy with it. I think we have also done another thing that in India, lamination is a very, very important practice and people want to change, as you go forward, some of their laminates. So in order to make that task easier, we launched a product called Relam. Again, Relam has done very well. This gives us a considerable amount of confidence that as we go forward, we should be able to maintain or better our double-digit underlying volume growth.
And any comments on the pricing growth? This quarter, we did see this turning positively. Do you think this can strengthen or firm up further? Or we should work with low single-digit pricing growth for the rest of the year?
Sandeep can add more color to it, but you have seen in this quarter about 9.9% UVG translating to 10.6% revenue growth so 70 bps of pricing coming in. You will continue to see this in this range, I think, a little bit. So there will be pricing coming a little bit on top of the underlying volume growth that we deliver, that you will see. But are we going to under current circumstances, where input costs are benign; are you going to see considerable pricing to be taken up? I think the answer is no. But I will ask Sandeep to add further if there is anything he wants to add. Sandeep Batra: No, nothing. I think you have summed it up very well, Sudhanshu. I think pricing will be more tactical. We don't see any commodity or input cost headwinds that will warrant an across-the-board increase in prices. Input costs overall do remain soft.
And then just coming to margins. There has been a moderation on a Q-o-Q basis on gross margins. Is this to do with mix? Or if the underlying commodities are easy?
So our margins, if you look at same period last year, Q-on-Q, they are the same, versus fourth quarter, there may have been a little bit of decline, partly is because of mix. And partly also, I think the VAM price for the first quarterwas slightly higher than fourth quarter, but that was, I think, more momentary than a sign of things to come. So, I think gross margins, as we speak, should remain at the levels that we reported in the first quarter.
Okay. And the other expenses growth was modest out there. How should one think about on a full year basis? You clocked 25% plus margins in this quarter, and it could be a quarterly trend. Do you think FY '26 could land at the higher end of your band of 20% to 24%?
Yes. So first of all, Latika, as you rightly pointed out, and that is my request to everyone, and I keep saying this again, that, I think, first of all, look at this number on a more annualized basis. Don't look at it quarter-to-quarter because we do have seasonality, point number one. And quarter 1 tends to be our largest quarter of the year. We also do A&SP based on the requirement of the brand and business. We do not manage it for the quarter. We basically say what is needed, what are the activities we have, which brand or business needs that, and that will change from quarter-to-quarter. So I think in this quarter, which is a gone by, you have seen the effect of these two seasonality and also A&SP being a bit low because of the intensity of the work which we needed to do on a few brands and businesses was different, and it will follow through in the year. So for the full year if you look at it, and that guidance which we have given, the corridor of 20% to 24%, is the corridor you should look at and you should look at us. I think the way we started with the input cost being benign, are there chances that we will be on the high end of this corridor this year? The chances are quite high. So, I think let's see how the year progresses. But with the input costs being benign, with everything which we are doing, will we be on that slightly higher end of the corridor, perhaps yes.
And sir, your observation or your data, internal data are suggesting that rural continues to do well. Is it also to do with your extra focus on Pidilite Ki Duniya (PKD), and then rural distribution outreach that you have been doing for a while now?
To some extent, I would say, yes. So if you look at our model, it is actually about generating demand at the root, and we go basically, as you are fully aware, we work with applicators, users right up to the bottom. So therefore, we then focus a lot on generating demand. And I think it is the strength of our portfolio and the uniqueness of our model that allows us to deliver better results compared to some of the more conventional peers as you look at them. If you were to look at our 5-year horizon, we have increased our direct coverage by 2x in rural and small town, direct coverage. So we were not directly there. Now we are directly there with our stock or something. We have increased our PKDs as you talked about, by 3x. We have increased our DFCs, which are Dr. Fixit Centers also close to about 3x. So, you can see that this is a constant work which we do, expansion of distribution, generation of demand in our unique business model, I think, gives us an advantage. We feel that our rurban or rural should continue to deliver better growth compared to urban for a considerable period of time.
So you sounded very positive on margin outlook. But looking at the volatile geopolitical environment and we are all watching Twitter every day in morning, are there any specific supply chain or sourcing exposure that you are actively monitoring or worried about, which can pose some risk in near term?
So the way I would look at it, I think just from a demand perspective or from our business top line perspective, our direct exposure to U.S. is very small. It is there but very small. But I think from a supply chain point of view, which is what you are asking, I think what we have is we have multiple sources for supply for our key raw materials. So therefore, we, in our preparedness, do not anticipate anything specific, unless something else blows up in that opinion. And we, as a company, also plan for some of these things. So if you were to look at our slightly larger lead time, which could happen in terms of some of the movements and so on and so forth, a little bit of bottleneck. So those kinds of things which we plan for, so that we continuously do in the way we source and the way we plan for our supply chain and raw material inventories and others.
And on the consumer business side, we have seen EBIT margin, which was, I think, the highest in the last 18 quarters. So any kind of a benefit which we have seen this quarter? And how should we look at this margin profile for the year?
So I think you should normalize the margins. We should not look at the first quarter margins, which has a lot of benefits because of the scale or the size of the quarter. So there is positive operating leverage, the whole size is less, we may not have spent at the advertising that we would like to spend for the full year. So there will be many factors. Better to look at the margin of last year because that's when you look at the blended EBITDA margins that we are comfortable with is in the 20% to 24% zone. And if you look at full year last year margins, that should be the number that we should use as a reference.
My first question is regarding the Haisha Paints because it's a large category, and we are currently present in say 5 states over there. So what is the medium term goal over there? And what kind of investments we have made in this particular venture? My second question is, which is a bookkeeping question regarding the ESOP expense last year because the last year, ESOP expenses increased from INR 9 crores to INR 88 crores as per the annual report.
Yes, Amnish, so I think last year, we granted ESOPs after a gap of a couple of years. And the way the ESOP charge is accounted, it is, in some sense, front-loaded. That is why you saw an increase in the ESOP charge last year, and that kicker will continue for the first 12 months. But as also you would recall from the notes to the results, even yesterday, the company has granted further options. So I think the ESOP charge is likely to remain at the same level as we saw last year. If anything, there may be a slight increase because for the next 12 months, you will have ESOP cost for 2 grants, one that was granted last year and one tranche that was granted yesterday.
Excluding ESOP also last year, there was around 18% increase in the overall salary cost. So, any particular reason anywhere we are increasing our manpower significantly?
So the manpower cost, now, actually, if you look at this quarter, let me look at this quarter, I think the percentage increase on manpower cost this quarter is almost in line with our top line growth. So see, what happens in our case is that and we talk about this quite often, but I'll just, again, Amnish, repeat this is that, see, because we do a bunch of new pioneering activities from time to time, some of the investments we make and the resources we put both in teams or staff, what you call staff cost, or also in what the quick, earlier investments we make in driving demand, tend to be front-loaded. Now what happens is that the team tends to be or the staff tends to be a little bit more front-loaded. So let me try and explain that to you. The way we go about doing most of our business is with the pilot projects. We always talk about pilots. And you know Haisha pilot. So what happens in pilots is that your resources for demand generation are restricted to that geography and to that pilot. We are confident of retaining them at reasonable levels. The growths have now moderated as you are seeing. But will there be investment made for the right opportunity to lead a pioneering initiative? The answer is yes. On coming back to Haisha, I talked about it earlier, but just very quickly again. see, as far as investments are concerned, if you look at it, in some ways, in a very technical sense, Pidilite has been in paints business for some time because we keep doing our waterproofing coatings, especially for exterior under the brand Raincoat. So therefore, in the experiment which we are doing in southern states, the plant which has been put up is not a plant put up only for Haisha. It is a plant which is a composite plant for Haisha and coatings and other things. So therefore, there is some investment made but do we have a dedicated investment for Haisha? Or is it a very big investment? The answer is no.
And as you always give that Pidilite is between the core category and growth in pioneer. Can you give some directional growth that as of what X times the growth in pioneer category is growing compared to the core categories?
Yes. So we have always said that. I think we are not revising that, which is basically our core categories tend to grow between 1x to 2x of real GDP. Core categories, we are satisfied if it is growing with the GDP to be honest with you because some of the core categories are quite well established, and that is the kind of growth we see. In the growth categories, basically, we have always said that we want it to be 2x GDP to 4x GDP. And there, we are very particular that we should see at least 2x, and ideally a bit more on the, if I could say, the middle or to the higher end of that range, which we talk about 2x to 4x. I can share with you, as I am speaking to you, that our categories are performing in that zone. Our growth categories are indeed performing to that 2x to 4x. And we are seeing that for all our growth categories, which are there. So our growth momentum continues. Pioneering is a part of it where we basically say that our desire is once we have gone national with a pioneering initiative we would like to be INR 100 crores. I think that is an absolute number, INR 100 crores in a period of 3 years from the date of going national.
Can you give us some colour of what is probably driving the growth outperformance of Pidilite versus some of the other categories or companies that we track? And this is probably the ninth consecutive quarter where you have had 9%-odd UVG, right? So is your core also growing faster than maybe some of the other categories? Or it's largely innovation and growth in pioneer?
So Jay, I think a very good question and thank you for asking this. See, I think I have talked about it a little bit but maybe at the risk of repeating it, I'll still say. See, the model itself, which we have, Jay, is very unique. And our portfolio is very diverse compared to many of the peer companies we are compared to. So therefore, if you were to look at some of the paints company, they would have 80%, 90% of their business coming from paints. You look at FMCG, they basically they are in the fast-moving consumer goods spaces. If you look at our portfolio, our portfolio tends to be very diverse. The distinctive thing about Pidilite and which I think makes us unique is that this tends to be more universal for us. I would not say we are 100% universal but we work so closely with our applicators and users that we cover a vast majority of our products and so on and so forth. I think if I was to single out one product category that is doing really well at this moment is Roff. We spoke about that. Roff, our tile adhesive, because tiles are growing, the surface itself is growing, and we are doing a very good job. Our distributor supply chain strategy, manufacturing, distributor manufacturing strategy is allowing us to deliver very robust growth in tile adhesive. Momentum on waterproofing and Dr. Fixit brand continues. On the core, because of our style of working and our model, we tend to be closer to at least 1x of the GDP. So therefore, do we grow core as well? And are we very possessive, if I could say, or very persistent about growing the core as well? That is also yes.
On tile adhesives. So, can you sort of help us understand, one is what is the competitive landscape in that space? Who are your key competitors? And how do they compare versus Roff in terms of product portfolio, distribution strength footprint? And from a channel standpoint, which channel is the most relevant channel for tile adhesive product?
Yes. So one of our key competitors here is a multinational company called Laticrete. I think in India, they are basically MYK Laticrete as you know and they have been around much before us. Their focus tended to be more on projects, whereas we have sort of started now building Roff in a classic retail way. So therefore, we are going retail. We are also doing projects. By the way, even our project business is doing quite well. In our understanding, we are the #2 now. They are still ahead because they have some edge on projects. But I think that is the piece. But other than that, there are national companies, some local, few other multinationals. So it is a full spectrum, which is there in the space and we keep monitoring that. The entire market itself is growing quite well. This market itself would be growing 2x GDP, if you ask me. I think that is our understanding, maybe a bit more. And therefore, if the market is growing, that we are arguably growing almost 1.5x of the market or maybe even more. But we also are very proud of this immediate ancillary, if I could call that, because when you join tiles, wherever the tiles are joined, you need to grout it with epoxy grouts. And our epoxy grout under the name of Roff Starlike which is part of our joint venture with an Italian firm is doing very well again. As far as channel is concerned here, interestingly, you see the business or the segment started, Jay, in projects largely. So now that it is going retail, the segment is BMS, which is building material supply store segment, which we used to visit in any case for some of our construction chemical business. Some of the construction chemical guys also keep it a little bit, but largely BMS. And what is happening progressively is that there are big specific tile dealers who are coming up and we have a program for these large tile dealers.
Interesting that you mentioned home improvement. Historically, you have been sort of restricted yourself to adhesives, or mostly very close adjacencies. Are you actually also exploring other categories within home improvement, which may not be immediate or sort of very similar to adhesives or sealants?
See, our proclivity is to remain as close to what our knitting is, but as we find a reason to be basically looking at something, we will definitely do that. So, I think progressively, as our portfolio expands, it is arguably a little bit more home improvement portfolio, and whereas our knitting, as you rightly said, are more in these what you call adhesives, sealants and polymers. So, I think those are the two different ways of describing it, Jay, but I think that's where we are.