Refused to commit on quick commerce ambition dark.
- Fuel retail losses price — answer hedged.
- Q1 fy27 procurement freight — answer hedged.
- B2c network slicing mobility — answer hedged.
The second question that I had, Sir, was with respect to the fuel retail, where I think it was mentioned very clearly that we have unlike earlier occasions when margins were turned negative, operations would be curtailed. We have managed to continue our operations. But is there some sort of a level at which we sort of look at then, sort of price increases, because obviously losses are significant even for us, I would presume, in this quarter. So how are we looking at that business in terms of?
So, I think we have actually increased our sales substantially when you look at previous year versus current year, we are talking of, double digit or even 20 type of growth. So, the pain is definitely there. We are about 4% to 5% of the market like I was showing market share wise. So, there is some pain, but we have to look at the long-term picture. What we have done is we said that there would be phases when it is kind of not so good and then there would be phases when it is growing. So, what we have to look at is slightly longer term rather than just from quarter to quarter. So, while there is some pain in domestic marketing of fuels, PSUs take a fairly large burden of that because they have 95% of the share. We have a lesser share and then if we just step away from a quarter to quarter, and look at long term. Probably this is a market which will continue with the fossil fuels for maybe a longer period, let us say than Europe or some other places, which will be there. So, it is a kind of a view that we continue to supply products to domestic market we will not be making any curtailments there.
Good evening. Thanks for the opportunity. My question is again on the refining side only. So, as you had indicated that in the month of March, in the Q4, we did see some volatility in terms of procurement, freight, and other factors. So how is the situation now in the Q1? How comfortable we are in terms of managing our procurement, freight, and other costs? And how should we see the margin environment panning out for us, particularly on both refining and petrochemical side for the rest of the year?
So, situation is still maybe I would say from worst to, has come worse, okay. It is a degree of change which is happening gradually as things return to some degree of normalcy. Having said that, we have seen cooling off if you look at the market, the cracks have cooled off significantly from what we have seen. Same way the, what should I say, the war risk, then the freight rates and also the premium on the crude like there were instances when it went up to, generally, I am talking about not specific grade or something, it went up to about $40 a barrel. Now people are talking about something which is more reasonable, maybe half that. So, there is some improvement, but I think the situation is very fluid. Nobody really knows what is going to happen. In a lighter vein, I do not know if I have to pray to God, maybe things will start improving but having said that, situation is slightly better, but it can just change. We are seeing that every day it changes. So, my guess is as good as anyone's guess here. The way we would look at it is refining is tight. The market has apprehensions of availability of product. So, we think structurally it is likely to remain reasonably strong. I would tend to say that.
We are not looking at anything on B2C kind of a business in the mobility?
No, even on the mobility, so you create specialized slices for different use cases. As I said, gaming will be a B2C direct to consumer offering. No, not today. You could again, you could potentially do that, the network supports it, but whether consumers need something like that, but the consumers pay a premium for that and whether that would be regulatory compliant, I think those are the things that we will need to work through.
I have a couple of questions on retail, quick commerce first. There seems to be a fair bit of competition in the market. Horizontal e-commerce players seem to be adding a fair bit of dark stores. And of course, you have the three quick commerce players. In that scenario, how do you see the industry consolidating in the next few years and what are your ambitions about the quick commerce industry? Do you, like a dark store target, a market share target, a user target and would you be like a consolidator in the industry if the opportunity comes? That would be my first question.
See, the way we look at our stores is they are omni stores, right? Ultimately, I am looking at wallet share of the consumer, right? People have different needs, where they go for weekly or monthly shopping missions to a store and they do top up from online deliveries, right? I am using the same big box store to deliver to the customer or walk into the customer, right? Ultimately, that is what I care about. Dark stores are only meant to fill the gaps where because my network is designed for walk in. Now, if there is enough concentration at some location, we have to meet the service levels, I need to put a dark store, we put a dark store, right. So that is how we look at it. I think that we have a sufficient network right now. We have store expansion plans. Those continue and I think that will couple with how the industry grows where the demand is. We do not have a specific because we do not look at dark store or walk-in store. Frankly, every store in my network can deliver to the customer. What is the right node to service to the customer from. I do not think I would be able too early. Let us see how the industry evolves. There are quite a few players. So, we will see. We are pretty clear. For us, it is more around, looking at the wallet share of the customers and meeting their needs, right? How the industry evolves, we will all see.
Sir, my question is on retail. So, you have delivered 11% growth in retail this quarter. However, if I want to evaluate the retailing business performance on a like-for-like basis, if I deduct 75% of your RCPL sales from the base to make it comparable, it is like a 15% to 16% growth in the retailing business. Now, this has come with only a 1% increase in the square footage on a Y-o-Y basis, so, just wanted to understand that this significant increase, despite the square footage being low, is it mainly the ramp up of the quick commerce or e-commerce business or it is a good mix between a very strong SSSG at the physical stores plus the QC and e-com ramp up? The reason why I am asking this question is if I want to make a mental model for your growth in future, how do I split it in three parts, your SSSG for the physical stores, your increase in square footage and the ramp up of QC, if you can even just very roughly tell me the percentage contribution of each of these three in addition to answering the earlier question.
Sure, so one, I think I had spoken in my presentation, the impact of RCPL takes the revenue growth from 11% to 14%. There is roughly a 3% point impact because in Q4 last year, that revenue was there it has gone out right. See for the purpose of reporting we are doing SSSG because that means offline, which continue to be healthy single digits. It is also a mix issue. It depends on where the growth is coming from, because the productivity of different formats, formats vary, so difficult to extrapolate from square footage to this thing. But overall, I would say there is healthy growth in the stores, also QC and B2B are ramping up as well. Now, that is obviously reflected in the margins also. If you have looked at my margins, they have come down a bit because my hyper local deliveries are growing pretty rapidly. Internally, we look at the big box growth from the same box how much I am able to deliver, whether the customer walks in or I have to deliver, right? When we look at from our network design perspective, where is the demand and to service that demand, what do I need? Now, it is a customer preference for different need customer want to walk in or they want to just get things delivered, depending on what the requirement is the need for convenience and we do both ways, right? So, for us, it is the wallet share of the customer right. It is just from a reporting perspective, we are saying SSSG. Now, practically, if you think at it, if I am delivering, even delivering from the store, that entire sales is coming to me from that box and internally, that is how we look at it.
I have questions on Reliance Jio. So, the first question is, if I look at the JPL number ex of Jio, the EBITDA was somewhere between Rs. 800 Crores to Rs. 900 Crores a quarter, that has increased to almost Rs. 1300 Crores in this quarter. So, what is driving that increase? That is my first question and some color on the timelines for Jio's IPO, because we basically publicly stated that first half of 2026 is when we should expect Jio IPO. Is that timeline still old because we still not seen the DRHP? The last question, any update on the AI data center which you are planning? Thank you.
So, I will take first and on second and third Anshuman would be there. On first clearly the services which we have is a comprehensive set of services for home and enterprises. The large part of margin expansion is coming from the operating leverage here because the cost for delivering the services has not gone up. A large part of our contracts are structured like that and that is leading to the margin expansion in digital services. On your second and third question on IPO, we have a statement in today's press release as well. It is fairly imminent. We are working towards it, and we will keep you posted. A lot of the work has been done. So, we will keep you posted in the coming days and on the third question around the AI data centers. So firstly, I would like to clarify that the AI data centers are not being done in Jio Platforms Limited. They are going to be part of the intelligence business, so RIL or the intelligence entity that has already been created. We have started. There is work going on our own data centers that we need for our captive purposes as well as for our partners in Jamnagar. So that work is going on. We are also working towards our gigawatt scale data centers. And that is something that in the next few quarters, we will see more progress on and then we will update you.
I have one question on the media business. So JioHotstar has five times the MAUs of Netflix. I mean, has it had a break even? That is the first question, and your linear TV has a disproportionate share in the industry. So, is the TV advertising for you still growing or it is degrowing?
Yes, on the first one, I think our overall subscription business is one part of the overall business. We have a very large and profitable entertainment business that is driven a lot by TV, to the point that you were making. And our overall profitability is a combination of all those businesses. As I mentioned to you earlier, entertainment is a very profitable business that we have and on TV we are seeing a large improvement in monetization as per some of the numbers that I showed you before. So, I think that is the momentum that we are going to see and the final performance will be a balance of those two.
Thanks. Just one last on retail. When do you think this because of maybe quick commerce or whatever, the dilution in EBITDA margin, by when do you think we will get that stability? Because your EBITDA growth, again, has been just about, I think, 3% Y-o-Y so perhaps because there is more revenue and that is lower margin, so when do we reach that stage that we start getting closer to double digit EBITDA growth, if that is possible?
See, it is just a function of each business contributing. It is just a function of the mix, how quickly the offline business grows versus the quick commerce business grows versus the B2B business grows, right? It is a function of the mix. If we slow down the growth of online business, market will start improving. It is a mix as far as the online business continues to grow faster.
Good evening. Anshuman, I had a question for you. You are obviously seeing a lot of momentum in Jio from a subscriber perspective. Let us say 525 million that further expands. You are going to get the IPO out as well. So, if you take, let us say, a one, two-year kind of view, what does success look like for Jio in terms of financial metrics like ROIC, free cash flows, any goalposts which you can speak to?
Not really, because look, we are not going to get into forward looking and, where we want to be in a couple of years. For now, I think I will tell you what the priority areas are, but I am not going to put numbers to where we want to be in one or two years. Priority area on mobility gained some more market share because we have the network advantage, we have product advantage, and we have fairly differentiated offerings, so we would want to capitalize on that. Home is a priority for sure and that is something that we have been innovating a lot, and we have seen good pickup in experience. We have had to do some, changes in between, moving to NLOS, etc., new equipment being put on the ground, but otherwise that is growing steadily and that is a priority. Enterprises, to an extent, is a priority. We want to gain more market share there. We have a much more room to grow and gain market share there and then of course, digital services. We have launched a few in the last couple of quarters and we want them to scale up, ramp up. Those would be the priority areas. I will not get into numbers where we would like to be. But yes, they are going to be exciting times. Next couple of years is going to be very exciting for Jio.
A couple of questions with respect to the refinery operation first up. Now, my understanding is if alternate crudes continue to be sort of the only option that we have, the dispute sustains for a while longer, now the chemical composition of crudes from the US and Africa and even Venezuela are markedly different in terms of sulfur content, API and others. So, how much of distillate yield can actually change because obviously, US crudes and Venezuelan crudes are geared towards more of light distillates. I think Russian and Middle East crudes are obviously something that are more optimal from our Indian distillate yield perspective, so do you see that as a risk at all? If, those are the only crudes that are available for us?
So Venezuelan crude typically tends to be very heavy. It is a very heavy oil, and US of course is lighter crude. Canadian is heavy. Then we have South American crudes from let us say Colombia, Ecuador, which are heavy. And we have mentioned in the past that one of the unique features of our refinery is actually processing heavy crude oil. So, the re-entry of Venezuela actually is at one time, we were taking a lot of Venezuelan crude. So that is actually a positive for us. Now, what is the lookalike for the Middle East grades is actually Urals from Russia. It is a great and then from the east, there are also some lighter barrels which come from the Russian pack. So, I think we do not foresee too much of a problem in terms of the composition of crude. So, what we do in the refineries, we blend the light, medium, heavy and then process it. So, we do not see that as a constraint because Russia is very much like a lookalike to the Middle Eastern crudes. Sulfur wise and gravity wise we are okay. And we have a preference for some of these heavy barrels. So, we kind of designed to take care of that. I hope that answers.
Thanks Sir, one more, if I may. What percentage of our production is impacted by SAED?
See, I think the entire DTA refinery is exposed to the SAED. So, whenever SAED, like in the past SAED was introduced on gasoline, diesel, jet fuel and things like that. Like I mentioned, we are, most of the product is getting sold domestically. So, the SAED takes a different form of a discount to that. So, there is an impact on the piece, which is the domestic. No, it is not the entire, like I told you, two or three products, right now it is only diesel, only diesel, gasoline and jet. Jet is of course small; we hardly produce anything. So it is mostly on the diesel that we are experiencing.
One question on telecom. Anshuman, in your statement, you talked about differentiated services through network slicing. What are we looking there? And what is the opportunity in terms of increasing the realization or increasing the subscriber? How are we looking there?
So, as you know, with our SA technology, we are able to create network slices. We are already doing that for our fixed wireless offering, and which is why we have been able to do that more successfully than the other operators, give them a more consistent performance level to subscribers. Now you can stretch that, you can use the same architecture to create slices for specialized services, and these would typically start with enterprise offerings where enterprises need certain dedicated places for assurance of throughput, etc., but then these can go beyond that, gaming for instance. So, where people need higher throughputs and which they are willing to pay a premium for. So that is something that our network is ready for, but of course we have to see if the market, the regulations, etc., are also ready for those.
And just to follow on the electronics and fashion that you talked about with the two-hour launch. So, how exactly do the network and the supply chain work in that scenario? Can the customer, for example, when they order, you would have different riders placed at different points? How is the backend supply chain working?
No so, you do not place riders anywhere. These are all gig workers, right? I have enough density in the network, right. Now, a rider who is there, I can assign him to a, if the order comes for grocery, I can assign from a grocery store. We also have limited assortment of other categories in dark stores also. But I, when I have my other let us say an electronic store, I can expose the entire grab and go assortment, right and the same rider will go and pick up from let us say the digital store and deliver to the customer. You do not have dedicated riders for a store. It is the network that polygon that you play.
And you have a fairly large square footage now. So, on this big base, how do you look at square foot additions like this 1% growth, which we saw this year? Was it a year of consolidation or you think that basically, now, whatever physical infrastructure you wanted to build, is largely built and from here on, it will every year be sort of a very slow growth on this?
See, we will continue to build. There's a lot of penetration to be done, especially in the tier two and beyond cities. We will continue to build the store footprint. I guess, last year, we have opened quite a few and we have closed a few - that is a regular exercise. But on net, net, you will continue to see store square footage of stores increasing. And you will also continue to see the productivity increasing.
Anshuman, questions. First, what drove JPL growth to be higher than Jio's growth? That is the first question. And on Jio, are you expecting further acceleration and subscriber additions so that in absence of tariff hike, double digit growth continues?
So, on the first one, I am sort of feel free to add, the digital services are growing off a smaller base. So, in terms of percentage growth, you will expect to see higher growth there. We are launching more services. We have spoken about our data center offering, Meghraj, where the scale of that customer update has picked up quite a bit. Our AI cloud offering plus some of the new products we have launched, plus our enterprise offering. That is expected to grow faster, just because it is growing off a smaller base, the percentage growth will be faster. Not to say that Jio or the connectivity piece will not grow, that will also continue to grow, but you expect digital services to grow faster. And on the second one, look, there is certain organic growth which we will expect both in realizations because people will continue to use more services. People will tend to upgrade in the plans that they use and subscribe to some of the additional services that we are offering. So, you should expect some increase in the ARPU even without any tariff increases and we spoke about this 4% to 5% kind of number that we have been observing over the last few quarters. That kind of growth happens even without any tariff increases. And then of course, the subscriber growth rate will be there. We do expect to continue to gain market share in the market. We have a differentiated better offering with much better 5G than what the other operators have been able to establish. So, we do expect to gain market share in the market.
Sorry, one question on oil and gas. So, what is known is, of course, what I meant was the downstream part. I am sorry, Sanjay. So, what is known about certain products like LPG having supply challenges, you talked about PVC having supply challenges, but beyond those obvious ones, which are the other chemical and petrochemical products where you believe availability can be a challenge if this continues? Like for example, because we are producing more LPG, are the propane-linked products that supply is getting challenged or what are the other areas where we are seeing the challenges?
Yes, partly you are right, because wherever LPG is used as a fuel those end consumption sectors are struggling. In fact, the government is now working in a very cohesive manner, they have formed what is called a joint working group. And this working group is a combination of Ministry of Petroleum, Ministry of Department of Chemicals, Petrochemicals and couple of other ministries also like food and public administration were also part of it. What this group is trying to do is to ensure that the key critical end sector requirements are not starved off for the feed stocks. And therefore, exceptions are being made from the LPG control order to ensure that these critical sectors are not starved for feed, but other than that yes there is as I said naphtha is critically short, EDC also has impacted the supplies. The biggest impact has been on methanol and that will probably have an impact on the fertilizer sector, the end sector. Natural gas has got very badly impacted because of Ras Laffan getting hit and that will also have its impact. The government is of course trying its best to ensure that the critical sectors remain unimpacted to the best extent possible.
One small one on FMCG, revenue has been written as Rs. 22,000 Crores, but if you look at the two key brands where the revenue is given, that is only less than Rs. 7,500 Crores. What are the other big products or brands which are contributing?
So, when I talked about the Campa brand, so that was only one particular brand under the beverage category. So, our beverage category, the revenue is more than about Rs. 6,000 Crores and similarly, when I talked about Independence brand, it was one part of the category for our daily essentials. So, the other larger contributor for this whole category is daily essentials for our business right now, which is almost contributing about 40% to the revenue. So, these are the two major contributors for our revenues.