EV deployment shifted from break-even timing to financing/charging-infra bottleneck.

On medical devices - we were expecting certain certifications from the export market. So have you received it? What is the status? Because I believe we are not growing as per the potential of the division so far.

So Rushabh, we agree with your remark. We have already invested in CE certifications for the Europe, which was a work in progress. And there is a bit of delay in getting those certifications. And we are expecting it to be over in this quarter. And after that, maybe the business will also start. Like fixed cost is already invested in, but revenue is yet to click in a large way for the export market, which we are confident going forward will take place but there is a bit of delay we agree on that.

On the EV segment - there has been high competitive intensity especially in three-wheeler. What more are we doing to improve battery range, after sales, and reduce cost? Also, one competitor is doing motors in-house and getting eligible for PLI. Where are we on both?

So Rushabh Jalaj Gupta here I will take this call. So you are absolutely right, the intensity of competition in the three-wheeler electric business is increasing that is because we are seeing a very high degree of electric conversion of the ICE and other fuel vehicle into three-wheeler. As far as we are concerned, we have our product plans. In fact, as of today, we offer one of the highest range that is offered on any particular battery offered in three wheeler and we are working on introducing variants of offering other battery packs as well that is one. Second part of your question was doing our in-house motor. There are various microcontrollers that go into electric vehicles, be it three wheeler or other components. We are well on our way to indigenize majority of the microcontrollers within ourselves that is in the business and we will be among the very few ones in the country to have their own microcontrollers for the business itself.

Can you give the volume figures for all the three electric products and what is the quarter-to-quarter change?

Q4 was perhaps our best ever quarter since the inception of TI Clean Mobility from the top line perspective. As far as the full year is concerned, the overall revenue grew by almost 160% over FY2024. As regards to specific volumes, the total volume for the year for the four businesses that we operate were 7,540 numbers. IPL Tech, which is the flagship business for the TI Clean Mobility, their Q4 again was the best quarter. We could deploy 65 trucks in Q4. In the entire last financial year all over the country for heavy electric trucks 206 trucks were deployed in the country in the entire industry out of 206 trucks 172 trucks were deployed by IPL Tech. ESCV, Eviator brand, small commercial vehicle and the electric tractor business - Q4 saw both the businesses seed volumes, about 14 in one case and 17 in another case into the market for Q4.

Sir can you give three wheeler numbers also? And what was the same figure for third quarter?

Three wheeler numbers for the quarter were 1662 and for the year were 7324. Third quarter figure was around 1800. For the full financial year, we maintained our market share. In fact, for the full financial year, the three wheeler L5M category of business, this particular TIV, it grew by 91%. The TIV grew by 91 % and we grew by 116%. The three-wheeler passenger business in which we operate for FY2025 over FY2024.

On any of this truck or three-wheeler business, do we expect to break even at EBITDA level in near future Sir?

The plan is that yes. For both these businesses, the attempt would be that at least for a quarter or maybe even more, the attempt would be within this financial year, which is the current financial year to achieve an operational break-even.

Engineering division has stagnated - are we losing any market share? Tonnages are less or how should we read it? Because that was our main growth engine in previous years.

Growth momentum and share of business continues to be strong in the engineering division. Let us say we have rather improved our market share in the domestic market. Coming to the margins what you are able to see the stagnant level that is because of new facility in CRSS at Nasik has kicked off and we are in the process of taking customer approvals, which is expected to be over in next three to four months time and then capacity utilization, which is just started now, is going to improve and then we see the revenue growth as well as the margin improvement is going to happen in the future. Yes [better numbers in second half of this year].

Coming back to the core business which is engineering and metal formed - how did the exports fare in this quarter, broken between engineering division and industrial chains? Also, how was the performance for the large diameter tubes for which the new capacity was under construction?

Exports business continued to be 15% of the TI sales on overall basis. And it continued to be around same level, but however, maybe on account of little uncertainty which all of us are aware, but we continue to have a great relationship with the customers but there is a bit amount of uncertainty in the short run which may be in our view it is a just a temporary period and after that we will be back. Coming to large diameter plant, yes, you are right. For extended range, the plant is operational now and we are in the process of getting the customer approvals which maybe all of the existing customers only. There are hardly new customers and we have to go through the cycle of getting product approved, which we are hoping in next one or two months we will get approved and then we see the extended range in the large diameter also and we will start kicking in for the engineering business.

In the metal formed product business although there was marginal growth, but margins continue to remain weak. So what is plaguing the margins for MFPD?

So Anupam, like we shared in the previous calls, MFPD business is under pressure because the railway maybe let us say is not kicking off but I am happy to share with our investors today. We have signed a thousand Crores contract for the next seven years period of time which is expected to start in Q4 of this year. So railway business we expect to revive it back starting next year and Q4 of this financial year which will help us to improve the margins in the MFPD business which were stagnant or little lower from the last two or three quarters.

Will this railway contract also boost your growth because for the last six seven quarters railway has not contributed much in terms of revenues? The growth also should be stronger compared to what it has been in the past.

Yes Anupam starting Q4 of this financial year railway will be on the growth trajectory back to the original positions.

On the EV business - we had a target of reaching close to 120 dealerships for three-wheeler. I don't think we have reached there. Where are we and what is target broken between three wheelers, small commercial vehicles, and tractors for this year?

Three wheeler business at this point of time, we are 85 dealers who are fully operational as of today. When I say 85 I am just talking as on March 31st for the quarter ended last year and the plan is to go upwards of 120 dealership for FY26. For the small commercial vehicle two dealers were fully operational as on March 2025 and the plan is to be having 25 dealers across the country. As far as e-tractor is concerned, four dealerships were fully operational. And the plan is to have about 25 numbers. They are also operational before the end of the current financial year. And as you would know for the truck business, it is a direct selling model that we are deploying at this point of time.

You made a point of this new plant in the engineering segment. What will be the incremental capacity growth because of this new segment?

It is going to add incremental capacity of overall engineering division about 7-8% but in terms of volume, if we say that it is going to be about 4000 tonnes per month.

On the EV side, would you quantify what are the losses for this financial year?

Yes this is Meyyappan here. See for this quarter the loss is Rs.107 Crores. What we have reported is Rs.244 Cr and in this you have to eliminate the CCPS fair value loss what we have accounted for in the consolidated statement. That is Rs.137 Crores. If you remove this, Rs.107 Crores is the PBIT loss for this quarter. And for the year it is Rs.412 Crores.

On the EV business - I remember Mr. Vellayan used to call that we need to do about Rs.1000 Crores in each individual set of these businesses to break even. And we are calling for operational break-even in the next year. So how does the number work?

Sir the target that TICMPL all the four businesses put together, the first immediate target is how do we reach $1 billion mark, let us say, next three to four years that is the first objective. Having said that, the second most immediate objective is, as also said how do we reach operational break-even at least for the two businesses this particular year. And the third target that we are working towards is that how do we become among the top three players in each of the four businesses that we are operating in.

TICMPL what would be the cash kitty that we have currently out of Rs.3000 Crores?

Almost around Rs.900 Crores we are having it in cash, 940 Crores to be precise.

Can you just explain between two businesses which you are written off this quarter, Moshine and the waste to energy business, what is the rationality behind it?

So Moshine which we started for a feature-phone market around one-and-a-half years back, our margin expectations are not getting fulfilled in that business. That is why when it was a small business around Rs.15 Crores so we have taken an impairment in this current quarter. What you are mentioning about the Aerostrovilos that was done in the Q1 of this financial year, which was basically an investment in the startup for the R&D project. And when we see that maybe it was not progressing well, so we have taken a call on that. I think it was around Rs.3.5 Crores was the investment in the startup.

Management related question - with Mr. Vellayan not being on the call today, should we read this is because he moved to a non-executive role?

So Mr. Vellayan is traveling this time and that is why he could not join this call.

If you can explain the CCPS impairment provisioning that has been done, what is the reason behind this and how should that change in the next couple of years?

With respect to CCPS, what we have invested in TI Clean Mobility. TI Clean Mobility has raised Rs.2,750 Crores of CCPS, out of which Rs.500 Crores has been invested by Tube investments as a promoter, and remaining Rs.2250 Crores has been invested by private equity firms. As per this CCPS terms, it is a variable conversion. It is not a fixed to fixed conversion. It depends upon the performance of the company. At that point of time of the conversion, it changes. And the funding also got completed in June 2024 and since nine months got over from that time we have to do a fair valuation on that and accordingly account for it. It has come to something like Rs.706 Crores of number that has been accounted as a fair value loss in TI Clean Mobility. And in Tube investments, standalone business whatever the investments which we are having, out of which Rs.569 Crores is the fair value gain for us that we have accounted in TI standalone business.

So just to understand at 706 Crores share value which is lower than what was anticipated earlier - should this be read as the actual performance is probably not tracking what was earlier expected?

No, no. See actually we never said any number earlier on this because the fair valuation the first time we have done it only in March 31st. See earlier period we have considered the cost as the fair value. The reason is the funding was not completed. Funding has completed only during this year. In June 2024, the final money has come in and entire funding got completed and hence we have done the fair valuation now and it has been accounted for and we never mentioned any amount earlier on this.

On the railway Rs.1000 Crores order, if you can clarify what this order is for and seven year kind of seems like a long duration for typical train order. So we should understand the nuances behind this.

Like we said earlier, like you see railway is going through the privatization route, many train orders have got awarded to one private player and in turn may be that has been particularly boggie has been given to us. So it is starting Q4 of this financial year. It will continue to another six years is the time period given.

Just wanted to clarify when you mentioned the target of $1 billion revenue in EV segment - does it include exports or it is only for the domestic market?

The entire size of the business, including exports.

We are supposed to review the feasibility of the cycle's business. Have you taken any call? You are targeting some export market there. What is the status on this division?

Rushabh like we mentioned in the previous calls, we think cycle business is already into black. And this year, particularly our exports has gone up and we continue to focus on exports and the other categories of the cycle business which we feel it is going to grow in coming future.

Clarification on the consolidated P&L - I can see the total profit and loss is around Rs.158.19 Crores in Q4 and the breakup between owners and non-controlling interest the ratio has come to 30:70 from 70:30 last quarter. So is this due to CCPS only or what is the ratio that we can expect going forward?

See this is predominantly because of the CCPS, Rs.136 Crores you have to add and that will be the impact. If you add that and then see it will be Rs.183 Cr for the total number for TI as against Rs.46 Cr.

If you can share something on this CDMO piece - what is the progress and what is two to three year roadmap on that?

So like earlier mentioned, our construction for the plant has already started. And we expect that to be over by let us say, Q3 and Q4 maybe in the middle of that, the construction will be over and then we will be able to go to the mass production level in the CDMO business. And that lab, what we mentioned, the customer acquisition is continuing which is encouraging. And then maybe after this commercial production happening with the large scale, we will do ramp up even for the CDMO business starting next year.

Regarding TI Clean Mobility - we have cash of Rs.900 Crores. Considering current losses, will we be forced to raise capital at TI Clean Mobility level in near future?

AN Meyyappan: We do not have any plans of raising any further investments, Since we are already fully covered. Mukesh Ahuja: So Vipul, as of now, we see that maybe we are covered for more than one-and-a-half to two years cash available. Also, maybe like we earlier mentioned the calls, we are very prudent on our fixed expenses and all those things. We are very careful being a part of TI and Murugappa group. So we feel as of now we are covered up to one-and-a-half to two years time.

Engineering division for your Nasik plant - when will it become fully operational? In 2026-2027, what type of revenue contribution can we pencil in for the entire year?

So we expect this plant to be fully operational by Q3 of this financial year itself rather than 2026-2027 because one thing is good working when the steel scenario because of the safeguard duty introduced we see there will be uptake and demand for the CRSS business and as earlier mentioned during the call this plant we have done a capacity of around 4,000 tonnes, which we feel should be get fully utilized by Q3 and Q4. And then based on the progress, we have a plan to further expand depending on how we are progressing.

We have also given a board resolution saying about Rs.300 Crores fund raise. May I know what is the plan for this particular debt raise that we have called out for?

This is a enabling resolution which we used to get every year. We always get it for this year and only in the need we will take but we do not have any plan to rise at this point in time.

With regards to incremental cash that is being generated this year how should we look at capital allocation as a policy?

So like we mentioned as of now maybe five verticals are already there in the TI. TICMPL like we discussed they are fully covered for next two years' time and the capital outflow will be happening for particularly TI Medical, CDMO business and for the core business what we are going to do it and as we said earlier maybe we are also exploring newer opportunities so depending on the attractiveness of the opportunity, fund will get allocated to that opportunity also.

For Mr. Jalaj - in your remarks you said we are looking at more battery options for three wheeler. I understand your current pricing is a bit higher than competition. Can you talk about what changes we are looking at and what will it do to your pricing versus competition?

So Anupam, as of today, what we offer in the market is a higher capacity battery. In fact, we and one of the competition are the two ones which offer a higher capacity battery. Our battery capacity is 10.2 kilowatt hours. Recently, we have seen in the market introduction of products with lower battery capacity as well. So we will be offering them also as one of the variants, which will give us some advantage on the pricing that we can do. Not only that, when we introduced our product, there were certain very unique features which are the best in the class features in that category, which of course, another competition has caught up upon. So very soon, we would be launching a refreshed version of our three-wheeler passenger variant which we feel that will again give us the competitive edge as far as the product is concerned. One thing which remains unchanged in the market is the premium positioning that we have positioned our product which is something a customer also acknowledges and customer is therefore willing to pay a slight price premium also on our product vis-a-vis the competition.

On the trucks - we were the only offering to a large extent in the last year and now a larger incumbent has launched almost a similar product as IPL Tech. Have you seen any impact and how are you preparing for that competition?

So competition will come. I mean, we are all embracing towards competition, not only from one, we will see competition from many. There will be many more entrants into this particular field. However, what is important is how many trucks have been put on the road in terms of the actual usage. I gave the figure earlier that out of 206 trucks deployed in the country, 172 were deployed by us. And what is important in case of the big truck business is the successful establishment of the end use cases, which we have been able to do across six to seven segments. So competition will come, but I guess we believe that we have a very good head start vis-a-vis the competition because anybody be it competition, be it us, it took us about a year or more than two years to establish the successful end use case so there will be a learning curve, the competition will also follow.

On Moshine - you have taken the right off given the margins. Are you still open to take that electronics PLI which is there - can it be housed under Moshine or is that a tough place?

So Anupam, like we said earlier, maybe electronics is a field we are not ours to but as of now whether we have decided anything to do in the electronics field, the answer is no. But we are open to this field because it is going to be a growing field coming in the time. Like you mentioned, even government is giving a PLI, but as of now, we have not taken any call.

Can you just explain the utilization of the current engineering and metal formed division and what is the upside that we have got left there in terms of capacity?

So in engineering division our capacity utilization is maybe let us say if I exclude the Nasik plant which is just started and there is another plant going to come in the Phaltan for the tube division. If I include this both put together our capacity utilization will be around 80% and in the MFPD business maybe because it is a varying business but overall number will remain again at around 85% capacity utilization in the MFPD also.

Do we have incrementally capacity to take that particular railways order? By that time will we be adding new capacity?

Like I maybe let us say mentioned in the tubes and the cold rolled strips, we are covered for even at least next one to two years because both the capacity addition one is just started, another is going to start, another down the line one quarter or two quarters. So we are covered in the tubes. Let us say it is already in public domain. For the MFPD division, we are also investing in the same place along with the tube capacity, which will also be good to go for next two years time.

On the EV business - clearly you are pioneers and there may have been learnings since you started compared to the original business plan. Could you walk us through any key learnings and any revisits to the business plan that you need to make with a three to five year view?

So Namit as I just said, I will just maybe reiterate those two, three points that our big milestone of reaching $1 billion that does not change so that in terms of business plan does not change that so the end destination remains the same that is number one. Number two that we are the pioneers so therefore we would want to be among the top three players in each of the segments that we play in so that also does not change. Yes, there have been few learning's. So one or two learning's that I can share with you is that for truck business for example, we have realized that the time from which we start pursuing opportunity or start engaging in a sales talk to the deployment of the truck. It is a long lead time item. It is not so much about selling a truck. It is about a complete project getting institutionalized. So that is one learning that we have got because there are multiple stakeholders which are involved, including charging infrastructure, the logistic service provider, the end use case, the financiers, etc so that has been a learning. The second learning has been that in many of the EV businesses since inception, it is the end user or the end use case business viability that needs to be established, be it in case of tractors, be it in case of small commercial vehicle. The only exception is the three wheeler business where the business is primarily a B2C business and since the business has reached almost 26% of the electrification, so it could be a usual through the channel sale of the three wheeler business.