Refused to commit on fy26 full year revenue.
- Near term bfsi spending — answer hedged.
- Book bill not translating — answer hedged.
- Client specific ramp downs — answer hedged.
So you are not seeing any specific weakness in the near-to-medium term? They continue to spend, no holdback in BFSI?
There are 2 perspectives. The pipeline is strong, but the clients are cautious about the spend, especially BFSI, which is discretionary. The early signs are they are waiting and watching. Some of the decisions have slowed down. If the uncertainties come down in the next few weeks, we are hoping the clients will start taking decisions on these project opportunities.
On deal to revenue conversion - book-to-bill has been consistently above 1.3x but it has not translated into revenue growth. Ex of Capco the conversion is quite soft. What has driven this poor conversion - cancellations, lower ACV growth because of longer tenure?
Booking to revenues is very difficult to correlate within quarters because the timing differs from deal to deal. The large deal we secured in Q4 will take some time to ramp up. There will be timing gap with these large deal wins. What gets reflected in revenue is also some of the ramp downs that happen as a result of lower discretionary spend and project spend going down. We need to win more, fill that bucket more for it to start reflecting in net revenue growth. We are happy with the way the engine has started to crank. With same momentum on large deals as the medium and small size deals come back, you will see a pickup in revenue growth.
Do you think those ramp downs which are client-specific are now largely behind us, and therefore it is just a matter of timing before these deals start to reflect in revenues?
We started quarter 4 on a positive note, but gradually during the quarter, the sentiments turned negative because of the tariff hike and anticipation around that, which had a cascading impact. This impacted our revenue growth momentum across sectors and markets. One example is a large SAP program in the consumer sector - the client put the whole program on pause because of the tariff situation. Also in Europe, some clients have slowed down transformation projects. We did see several instances of volume drop in some of our existing accounts. This is a transitional phase and will gradually stabilize.
Capco was previously a drag on Europe margins - how is that rebounding? Also clarify on board refresh, are we done with most of the organizational changes?
Capco has been doing well from the standpoint of its growth and bookings and there has been a lift-off in the margins as well. Even from an operating margin performance, in Q4 they have done very solid performance. So our Europe margins have also been impacted by some of the other ramp downs that we've seen and the non-Capco part of the business.
Given we are exiting FY25 on a decline and entering FY26 on a negative note, is there a possibility that we would be able to record a positive growth in FY26 or will FY26 also be a year of revenue decline?
As you know we don't give a full year guidance. The recent developments, especially the macroeconomic situation, the tariff situation - we are keeping a very close watch on how the situation is evolving. At this stage our Quarter 1 guidance represents the best visibility we have. The Phenix deal we announced in Quarter 4 is expected to ramp up starting H2 and that will help uplift our revenues.
TCV minus large deals on a trailing 12 months is down around 13-14% YoY. Is this why conversion of order book into revenue gets impacted because these deals convert faster than larger deals?
We closed the full year with $14.3 billion of booking. There is a down year-on-year. But our large deals which is something we've been wanting to improve has gone up. The deals in the smaller and medium-sized bucket are not growing fast enough. Bookings are largely coming through the large deals. Whether larger deals take longer to convert vis-a-vis smaller deals - it is just a conjecture, I don't think there is a causal effect. But yes, if smaller deals also start to grow, it will have an impact on our overall revenue growth.
When revenues decline, it impacts utilization rate. To maintain margins in a narrow band, what would be the underlying assumption for utilization rate? Should it be around 87-88%?
There are several levers at play and utilization is one of them. Utilization needs to improve or at least sustain even though in a weaker revenue environment. There are other levers like fixed price productivity, further cuts in G&A, overheads rationalization, improvement in other programs that we are driving from a profitability standpoint. There are many levers at play with utilization being one of them.
Can you elaborate on the extent of ramp downs, cancellations, delays in the last 2 weeks since the tariffs came out? How much of this is fresh and is that what you are building into both ends of your guidance?
Our guidance digs in the current visibility that we have at the moment. It certainly reflects the macroeconomic environment and the visibility we have in terms of spends our clients will make with us. It factors those uncertainties as well and as you know we guide in a range and that gives you a good perspective of what we are looking at for the quarter.
How much of the situation has changed in the last two weeks - if macro improves the upper end, if not the lower end?
From our perspective, after the pause for 90 days on the tariffs, there is a little bit of stability that we have seen and that is reflecting on the last 2 weeks. But what we don't know is how this will play out, especially with China on the tariff side. Based on the best visibility in terms of revenues we have given the upper end of the guidance assuming the demand situation will stabilize and improve, and the lower end if it worsens further.
Which verticals are seeing the highest impacts at this point in time?
If you look at sector-view, the way the economic environment has become uncertain on the back of tariff increases, we are seeing this impact not just in the U.S., but also in Europe. Some sectors have been impacted more, like consumer, manufacturing - within manufacturing, specifically automotive and industrial. We are seeing indirect impact on most of the sectors. Clients across all industries are taking a lot more cautious approach and are doing scenario planning before they start making more business decisions.
How are you seeing BFSI broadly currently in terms of how they are thinking about things, both US and Europe?
We have been seeing good traction in BFSI, specifically in the U.S. and in APMEA. And also our Capco business, both in terms of revenue and order book. We faced headwinds in Europe in the BFSI sector. The good news is that we have a good pipeline and there is deal momentum. We are looking at apps and IT Infrastructure modernization, opportunities around BPS and Cybersecurity, opportunities in Consulting via Capco, Asset and Wealth Management, insurance platform digitization and payments. We want to prioritize how Wipro and Capco can come together with Capco as the tip of the spear.
We continue to see pressure in Europe through the course of last several quarters. What's driving that? On segmental margins, while Capco has recovered, no improvement in segmental margins for European geography - what's dragging the margins?
If you look at our revenues for last year on a full year basis, Americas has actually grown 1.2% and Europe has shown a degrowth. APMEA had a degrowth, but in Quarter 4 they actually turned sequentially positive. Now in Europe, we have a new leadership team. We have a very strong pipeline of deals. We just won a large deal, Phenix Steel, and that deal will start kicking off in few months from now. If you stay focused on the deals that we have on the table, we should be able to look at a positive momentum in Europe in the next coming quarters.
Any sense on when do we start to see some of these pressures recede?
In Europe, we have actually won a very large deal and that should start ramping up through the course of the year and especially towards the second half and therefore you will see a bounce back then. We also have a solid pipeline that we think we can close between now and September and that should also then add.
Was there any weakness also felt in this quarter because of which we came towards the lower end of the Q4 guidance?
If you look at the last few weeks, you've seen the economic environment - many analysts have been forecasting from January to February to March, there's a drastic change in terms of how the industry has been looked at. The impact of tariffs is not just US but also in Europe and across sectors. The ones I called out are consumer manufacturing, especially automotive and industrial, with direct impact - customers are looking at cash position, looking at how to reduce cost, doing significant scenario planning. They are holding back on any further investments.
If growth in FY26 is weak and turns into a decline, do you think margins could be under pressure? Conversely if revenue picks up in H2, could we have a jump in margins?
It is very difficult to say which way the revenues are going to go. There will be pressure on margins as we start Q1 - two headwinds. One, weak revenue environment. Two, a lot of deals that are part of our pipeline are actually cost takeout and vendor consolidation deals which inherently come with pricing pressure. We will prioritize growth and invest in our clients. Our endeavor would be to keep the margins in a narrow band. The levers - bench costs managed tightly, higher productivity in fixed price programs, optimize and cut down on fixed spends as the business comes down. We will only have to accelerate it.
Headcount has increased after a couple of quarters of decline. Total bookings and large deal wins are strong. Capco reported solid growth. Yet your guidance midpoint implies one of the lowest growth outside of COVID. What specifically is pulling down this guidance?
There is some uncertainty in the macroeconomic environment that's playing out. While Capco has printed strong numbers for Q4, the macroeconomic environment will impact other sectors including consumer, manufacturing, where we are seeing some softness. From a market unit standpoint, Europe weakness is likely to continue into Q1. Hopefully from there we look at how to build on the momentum on the back of some of the large deal wins that we've had both in Q4 and in Q1.
This is the second year of revenue decline and there is high likelihood of 3 years of revenue decline. What is the problem that is essentially ailing - why are we consistently underperforming?
FY25 was a mixed year. We made progress on a few fronts. While we de-grew 2.3% in FY25, Americas which contributes close to 63% of our revenue grew 1.2% in FY25. APMEA de-grew 9% but recovered in second half and delivered growth of 1% in Q4 sequentially. Europe has been a challenge - de-grew 7% YoY and 2.5% sequentially in Q4. Our focus has been to stabilize and bring this region back to growth trajectory. We had new leadership and the Phoenix deal will help us get momentum on the revenue side. Essentially, the problem statement is Europe and how Europe will turn around, which will have an overall impact on Wipro's performance.
What does your guidance assume with respect to normalization of the environment - tough throughout the quarter or normalize over coming weeks?
We have factored in assumptions for both at the lower end and upper end of the guidance. Our guidance for quarter one is based on the best visibility, both in terms of revenue and what we have seen currently. The upper end of the guidance is if we see improvement in the demand situation from where we are today. The lower end of the guidance will factor in worsening of the demand environment. I don't have a crystal ball to say when this whole uncertainty will become certain.
Your sales and marketing spend in USD terms is down high single digit YoY in FY25 at a time when you continue to lose market share versus peers. Do you think anything needs to be done differently here?
You should look at our S&M even year-on-year - that is a good reflection. From an employee compensation standpoint, there is no change in the S&M. A lot of what we are doing is rationalization of more G&A kind of roles - those roles that are by design need to operate from India and therefore are not client facing, in high-cost geographies we have got them down. We are not cutting down on S&M, especially from a sales standpoint. We are going ahead and investing in our people, in cross industry, in industry solutions and in AI.
Can you talk about how AI related productivity passbacks or deflation might be playing into your contract renewals and if you are proactively infusing AI into existing deals - is that putting existing TCV numbers at risk?
At this point, I am not seeing any significant impact either on revenues or margins. Whatever benefits of GenAI that are applicable to our customers - some of the times, the customers' budgets are getting freed up. We are actually using GenAI and getting some incremental work done for the same customer, which could offset some of the revenue drops. While we continue to infuse GenAI into managed services deals, we are also leveraging GenAI to look at completely new revenue streams - that is changing the game. For example, we just announced a partnership with NVIDIA on Sovereign AI, SIAM.AI in Thailand. Another example is predictive maintenance of critical infrastructure for one of the large cities in Europe using AI agents.
Looking at client metrics, across sizes from $100 million down to $10 million, there has been an element of softness. How much is from FX versus client losses or cuts in discretionary spending?
If you look at the number of $50 million clients that we have, they broadly remain the same. Our top 5 or top 10 clients are all growing. In Q4 of '25 on a year-on-year constant currency basis, all three have grown. The number of active clients going down is just a reflection of the overall revenue environment and the lower discretionary spends.