On the presentation on Slide 24, you've given $2.7 billion of non-auto order book. And then in other slides, we've given $1.3 billion is coming from aerospace. So could you share where is this remaining $1.4 billion coming from? Is it consumer electronics or which business is this?
Yes. This is Vaaman here. It's coming from all of the others. Of course, consumer electronics is also growing at a fast pace because we already have those plants at operational plus we said that the additional plants are also coming upstream. But they're a mix of all the other businesses, and we expect this to grow even further in the coming quarters.
And Vaaman, just on the consumer electronics, like we gave this line that 15 million to 17 million units by end of FY '26. So like what exactly the unit? Like, for example, is one phone screen one unit, that the way to think about it? Because when you look at the pictorial depiction, the third plant looks significantly bigger than the second plant. So I'm just trying to see that with just the second plant, we're talking about 15 million, 17 million units. In the third plant scale, like what exactly -- or am I understanding units incorrectly, that one phone is not one unit.
Good question. Actually, our joint venture is into glass. So it's not just phones, it could do a lot of things in the future as well. So right now, of course, we are starting with one product line, but these -- the technology and the capability is able to cater to multiple of different devices. So right now, yes, it is more towards the phone side. But like I said, the further capability will come into other products as well. So like I said, you have to use some imagination with that. But we'll provide you a lot more information in coming quarters as that starts to come up to steam.
On the consumer electronics phase, the first plant started operation in November, how is the ramp-up happening? Would it be too early to give out a revenue number for Q4? And the 15 million to 17 million capacity, would it be possible to indicate a revenue potential?
Look, we are not allowed to give out too many numbers for these plants. But I can tell you from the quality perspective, everything was matched. We definitely did a very good ramp-up, a record-time ramp-up for all our customers in that plant. And the joint venture is going really, really good. We have a great cooperation. The customers have been extremely happy. But we'll be able to really tell you once the new plant is up and those orders kick in. And only then we'll be able to tell you more about that. But I can tell you from a more structural side, it's really much better than our expectation.
Just lastly on the aerospace division, we saw very strong revenue ramp-up over there through to last year, but margins have come off. So just if you could share some color over there as well what's really going on?
Yes. Look, aerospace has been a great addition to the group. Of course, you're seeing numbers now with the addition of AD Industries as well. That was also a unit that was struggling with profitability. So of course, we are making huge inroads together with the customers to improve that and driving group synergies to bring that to the level where we expect in Motherson. So obviously, in the short term, you've seen where it takes a dip. Apart from that, we're also expanding the facilities, we're building. We build greenfield facilities, together with our partners, in Bengaluru. So those are ramping up. The customer situation is improving gradually, but in the right direction. But we believe there's further improvements to come. And also, we are pivoting these industries to be serving some of the other customers, such as semiconductor and things like that, which would also helps to deal with the cyclicality of some of these things when they happen. So again, these are just offshoots right now. You're seeing good growth opportunities. The profitability will come surely in coming quarters.
First is, we have taken approval for raising debt of INR 8,500 crores. So can you talk about that? What are the applications which you're looking for that?
Look, this is once a year, we take it. It's on an estimated basis. It's not that there is something getting planned imminently. It's an in-principle approval that has been sought from the Board. And obviously, when we do raise it, you will hear about all the details, including the use of proceeds and so on.
On Slide 20, I think you talked about -- or 20 or 21, I think you talked about Yachiyo being able to cross-sell beyond Honda. Can you talk a little bit more about this? I mean, what is the potential? How should we think about the growth in Yachiyo? And the overall Japan piece, which sort of stands at about 2%, I think, which you mentioned in your country-wise, how should -- how is that composition changing with all the acquisitions that we've made in -- with the Japanese OEMs now?
Look, Yachiyo is a new entrant into Motherson field. What we have been able to show to under management is that immediately with them coming, we have got them the orders from other carmakers as well. Till now, they were only working for Honda. All Honda cars all over the world, carry their sunroofs. Now they have already broken ground with new ones. Next step is to bring in the German carmakers and American carmakers as well into the fold. So Yachiyo has a terrific history. It's probably very competent and probably the only living company at the moment doing this business. So we're grateful for Honda-san have trusted to give us this. But I think there's a tremendous amount of future for them.
And is it fair to look at the remaining $1.4 billion revenue because we've increased -- we've added another plant in the consumer electronics business this time. So we increased the plant over there. So is it fair to say that you sort of have some revenue estimate of those plants added in this order book?
Yes, but still more to come. As you know that the order book of that business is generally small. Consumer electronics business is only about 6 months to 1 year at max. So once the plant is up and ready, you will see a lot more of those -- that order book come in because that's when we have visibility to those orders. Unlike the automotive, which is 5 to 7 years, the consumer electronics is much shorter. But yes, this is also for the other businesses, like I said. So just watch out for this space, we believe a lot more growth is to come in these new businesses.
No, we hope to see these products at your Motherson Investor Day, which you usually hold every once in 5 years. Just last question, what is the final -- like we earlier said INR 2,600 crore investment in consumer electronics. What is the number now because we've added plants over there?
Look, right now, it remains the same. What you are seeing on the slide that you're referring to is pertaining to the INR 2,600 crores. I think that Vaaman was mentioning, there's obviously conversation ongoing for further expansions. We have highlighted it also when we had raised capital in September last year. Some of those conversations are ongoing. And as we progress through the year, you'll hear more about it.
Firstly, to Kunal sir, first on the module and polymer business, cost seems to have increased Y-o-Y and Q-o-Q? Any cost pressures you would like to call out? Was there any one-offs?
This is Vaaman here. Definitely, that was a place where we had the maximum pressure because of course, the customer mix over there is still figuring out that their program launches. We did have some issues and launches as well, which we have now taken care of and they're all behind us. So definitely, this was one place that we look back and say that this is a place that we can make more improvements coming up in coming quarters, and it should only improve from here.
On the global situation, over the medium term, how do you see the shifts happening in the supply chain? And in terms of some of the global OEMs have been talking about increasing U.S. production over the medium term, would Motherson stand to gain within that you already have a strong presence in U.S.? How do you think the supply chains will align over the medium term?
Very good question. I think this is something that Papa has been driving in the group for a long period of time that we are not a company that wants to do a lot of exports. All our plants are local. We try to make them locally competitive, support locally, invest in them. So definitely, whenever there are shifts like these, we have a good opportunity to grow because of our geographical presence in all the countries where these markets are and our close presence to the customers. So I think that's been one of our strengths in waves of these volatilities and uncertainties that you see. And hence, the performance also is in front of you. We are much more agile to be able to shift production as the customer needs and are already physically present in all those locations with capacity present. This is also something that Papa forced us to do that as soon as the plant reaches about 75%, 80% of capacity, we start paving way for how to increase it in the short term and be ready for increased production. So that's worked really well for us and also the reason why the customers are looking to us for providing solutions for those places where they have not been able to get these solutions.
My question is on the modules and polymer products division. You mentioned there were some challenges. But given that we are in turbulent times and there have been tariffs-related issues as well, just want to understand whether it was Q4 that faced most of those challenges? And what should be the starting point for us to look at the margins of this division? Would it put the annual margin to the right benchmark?
Okay. Thanks, Kapil, for that question. I'll start and maybe Kunal can support me on some of that. Look, when you're running 400 facilities globally, even if you have a problem in 5% of them, that's 20 facilities, right? So first of all, we have to understand the nature of our business. We are taking over companies that are financially in distress. Sometimes, the customer is taking -- telling us to take a lot of programs on, which are complicated. So always we are ready for some sort of a situation where things have not really gone exactly as per plan, and that's part of the business. Yet we have a very strong DNA of never give up. It's never that we have ever given up a program or platform or a unit or something like that. And we work together with the customer, the people. And the whole group really supports to be able to solve the issues that they are on the field. So likewise, even in this situation, I think we did have a couple of launches that perhaps did not go exactly as per -- as we had planned them. Numerous reasons why, but we're not a company that gives excuses, we're not going to get into that. We could have definitely done better. And that's something that we are planning for as we move forward. And we have strengthened these things in the last quarter. Definitely, from the way I see it, that the worst is behind us. The pickup in the margins should only be positive from here as long as, of course, the volume holds.
The second question is on the acquisition opportunities. Given this environment, we are seeing many companies facing challenges and we've historically been good in taking these opportunities. Given the current scenario, how you think about the acquisition opportunity and the landscape over there?
This is Chaand here. Look, we are always open to acquisitions. And we -- personally, I think that this makes more sense than a joint venture or trying to reinvent the wheel ourselves because once you own the company, then you have the complete freedom to go anywhere in any country and make this thing. But I have always been guiding my people that you have to make sure that a customer is standing behind asking for that particular acquisition. So if it's only that you feel that's a good business, well, I'd rather that I have a customer telling me that he needs that product and hence, he wants us to do the acquisition. So Motherson is always open for acquisitions. But like we have said always, and you can see it in the past, all the acquisitions that we do are -- there's a customer standing behind it. And that then gives us a chance to make all three of us happy in that particular thing. Probably that's the reason why 47 of our acquisitions are all doing well.
My first question was that now that fiscal '25 has ended and we are at the end of the last 5-year plan, any initial thoughts for Vision 2030, the broad areas that we should be looking at, what are you thinking about over the next 5-year horizon?
Amyn, we are not thinking. We already know what it is. And Motherson works in a way that by December of 2024, fourth -- fifth year last quarter, the whole group had already worked together as to what the number will be for the next 5 years. The number of all the groups and everything put together, we are targeting for 2030 will be US$108 billion on the top line. And of course, the ROCE remains same at 40%. I hope all your hearts are fine.
Just one or two follow-up on the accounting. This consumer electronics venture that you have, just from my understanding, is it a consolidated or this is part of the unconsolidated JVs that you report, just from a reporting and accounting point of view?
It's consolidated, Amyn.
And secondly, your tax rate for this quarter was very low. I noticed that the same thing happened last year fourth quarter. Is there something which happened in the 4 quarter that just we should be mindful of?
No, look, I think, obviously, during the other quarters, you are building it out on an estimate basis. Then at the end of the year, you have the final outcomes and then you get to whatever is the adjusted tax base, depending upon how the previous quarters are looking like. Having said so, there were some one-offs that occurred all the way, totalling to around about 47 on a net basis -- 45 on a net basis. which included some of the tax refunds that we got some places where we reversed our DTAs and some one-off costs on account of repayment of -- or the prepayment of debt that we did with the QIP money. So altogether, that impact is around about 45. Majority of that is in the tax bucket. And hence, you're seeing this at a slightly muted level. But a better way to look at it would actually be the -- for the year piece rather than for the quarter piece.
And secondly, the consumer electronics business including the Phase 1, which is operational, are we thinking about the applying for PLI for electronic components? Are we eligible for that?
Yes. We are eligible for that, including some of the SPAC-related, which are special -- especially created by the local government, the state government for the electronic manufacturing piece. So yes, we are part of that.
Thirdly, with respect to the PCB assembly greenfield capex which you're putting up, you have mentioned it for autos, but are we also thinking from non-auto perspective? Is that also an opportunity, given that there's, again, reasonable input content there?
Look, like with everything else, it's a capability set that we are building. So obviously, while it is currently for backward integration on the automotive piece, but once we are there, there's nothing stops us from going for any other industry as well.
Vaaman, any sense on how the imports on PCBs are currently? And what is the opportunity set that we are looking at?
Look, this is something that we've been working on for a while. Of course, the wire harness business itself is also doing some of that. And we are -- now what we're doing is we're putting the entire groups requirement as one. So SMR has a requirement. Rajat is telling me that a total of 15 lines globally is the requirement of -- we already have. And we're building now, of course, for the Indian requirement and in the future also be able to export. On top of that, like we are talking about our expansion in the consumer electronics. More and more components are coming with PCBA requirements. So we're just preparing for that. We have a large requirement of our own. We're catering to that. And like I said, we will build further on from here once we have secured our own requirement.
On the consumer electronics business, is it possible to share all the INR 2,600 crores number that you had given on CAPEX commitment, how much of it has been done in fiscal '25? And also this INR 6,000 crores, which we again have given that non-automotive would be 50%, so is it possible to break that further and give some sense on how much goes towards consumer electronics?
Look, in the period March '25, I think we have done around about INR 900 crores to INR 1,000 crores out of the INR 2,600 crores. So part of that obviously flows into the '26 capex guidance. And then you are seeing some of the other pieces, which are semiconductor linked some of the PCBA pieces, some of the medical pieces, which are all in the works right now, new aerospace facility coming in, which are all part of the non-automotive part of the group.
And so fiscal '26, I mean how big this INR 1,000 crore could get to, like we end up spending the entire INR 2,600 crores within F '26 itself?
Look, it is difficult to really say it for certain. But having said so, right now with our plan, the larger facility is supposed to kickstart by mid of FY '27. Going by that, a majority of it should get spent in this year if we are going to be ready for that facility in mid of next year. So I would imagine most would get spent.
And the 15 million to 16 million units is only the Phase 1, which is sort of already underway, the Plant 2 and Plant 3 will add on top of that. Is that understanding correct?
That is right. So one plant is already underway. Plant 2 will kick start in the next few months. And that is where we are seeing that the ramp-up of this to be somewhere around the 15 million to 17 million units by the end of this year. And obviously, then our largest facility will kick in, which will further enhance this capacity plus build in all the other backward integration pieces as well. And hence, that becomes a much more comprehensive portfolio going ahead.
Just last clarification on this piece. This consumer electronics business, I noticed when you move to the capex slide, you put it in lighting and electronics, whereas when we talk about the order book, we call it in the non-automotive piece. So you -- I'm just slightly confused in terms of where is it coming in revenues. Is it coming in the lighting and electronics revenue stream? Or is it coming in non-automotive somewhere?
No, it is in the lighting and electronics piece. It is more driven out of the fact that it is electronic division. And hence, it is residing in that division. As that business becomes larger, we will start putting it out as a separate item, much like we have done for integrated assembly as an example.
The other question that I had was on the on the wiring harness business. Now when I look at the margins of the business, they have actually -- if I look at quarter or even if I look at annually, they've done quite well. But when I look at the,India there has been some pressure on the India piece. So it seemed like a lot of that margin expansion or improvement is coming from PKC. Generally, that industry has been under pressure, right, commercial vehicle. Just trying to understand, what's happening on the margin piece on wiring harness?
So this is Pankaj here. When you're talking about the India piece, there are two components to it. There is a stand-alone business, which has done very well; there is also domestic Indian industry, which is part of the subsidiaries or the associate companies. And there, there has been a lot of expansion. So you would see that there has been a lot of growth in the new plant setups. If you see the commentary from MSWIL, you would note that there have been expansion expenses relating to new plants and some delayed launches by the customers, which have impacted, to some extent, the margins, but they have still been able to manage very good return on capital employed. So the focus has been on growth there. And the global business is not on PKC because it's one Motherson, so as a whole division. There are multiple units around the world. Coming out of COVID, we had a lot of challenges in the supply chain. We in-sourced many things. The team around the world worked very hard and worked together with the customers to find unique solutions, continue to work on VAVE and optimizations and improving the efficiencies. So that is -- all resulted in a good set of numbers.
Sir, if you could just break up the organic and inorganic revenue for quarter 4 financial year '25 and for the full year?
For the full year, on the inorganic side, we have done around about INR 8,500 crores. This is there on Slide 10 of the presentation. I think if you look at it from a year-on-year basis for the 12 months, we would have grown organically around 7% or 8%. And if I look at it on a quarter-on-quarter basis, then it will probably be flattish on the organic side.
This question is for Sehgal Senior. You talked about 5-year Vision 2030 destination, I mean. Is the $108 billion of revenues, which you talked about, is it based on gross revenues, which currently as on FY '25 was around $26 billion? Or is it based on reported net revenue, which is around US$13-odd billion?
Very good question. I had already requested that we are not wanting to give more details. But normally, we go on gross revenue. That's because many different countries, many different taxi and all that. So we follow a number which is gross, and that's how you should look at it. And let's wait till another 3, 4 months, and we'll give you all the details as much as you want.